dgkfit Report post Posted March 11, 2016 Hello, the hoffman brothers have made me a tempting offer on a new ferdco pro 2000. it appears to be improved since they took the company into their outfit. and, their shipping bid is the lowest i have seen yet. regardless of price, should i get the machine to sew my fabric with #346 thread, rather than a cobra class 4 or a cowboy 4500 or a nickosew 441? all of these are about $300 more. hoffman says theirs is the original, and still the best. what do you think? thank you dale Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dirtclod Report post Posted March 12, 2016 I've had a Pro 2000 over twenty years and never had a problem with it. Yes I think it's worth the extra money! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brmax Report post Posted March 12, 2016 (edited) I for the first time seen there site this morning, or old Ferdco site and looked at some machines listed. As I read, it seemed they might have been the early casting pioneer for the 441 clone if I read correctly. What is the difference in each of these pakages in your opinion. I would like to look into this a bit more myself, if I recall the stand may be different. I think they all easily run a 346 thread though. Floyd Edited March 12, 2016 by brmax Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dgkfit Report post Posted March 12, 2016 I would like to make myself clear: hoffman brothers have quoted me a price on a new ferdco pro 2000 that is $300 less than all the other guys: cobra/cowboy/artisan/techsew/nickosew. and, their shipping cost is lower, too. is the ferdco as good as a cobra/cowboy, and is hoffman's service as good as theirs? thanks dale Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dirtclod Report post Posted March 12, 2016 I think I made myself clear on what I would buy. But you buy whatever you want to. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
soccerdad Report post Posted March 12, 2016 What is the price? And what comes with it? I'm looking at them, too. Has anyone bought one of these in the past two to five years. Still the same quality, etc? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
machinehead Report post Posted March 12, 2016 Hoffman Bros. has been in business since 1903. Surely they haven't accomplished that by hook or by crook. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
soccerdad Report post Posted March 12, 2016 Yes, I'm not particularly skeptical ... just wondering how quality is going since changing hands. No disrespect intended. Just curious. Anybody have a newish Ferdco? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
machinehead Report post Posted March 12, 2016 http://www.raichert.com/Leather/pro2000/ferdcoPro2000Web.htm Here is a company in Arizona in business since 1932 claiming it is the " original" since 1995 Gregg from Keystone Sewing here on the forum also carries the machine. Maybe get a " second opinion"? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dgkfit Report post Posted March 12, 2016 Hello, thank you all for your help. in response to one question, hoffman brothers wants only $2095 for the base pro 2000 machine with fabric toothed feet/dogs, lamp, speed reducer, pedestal stand. that is $300 less than the other guys' base model price. and that is all i need to start. also, they beat their shipping price to me, maybe because of their proximity. i need to sew thick fabric with #346 thread for the product on this site: workoutsandbags.com. everybody i have talked to says "buy a cobra", but this price is quite tempting. and i know hoffman brothers has been in biz for a century. also, the data sheet on the machine says it will sew up to #554 thread! thank you all for your advice. dale Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darren Brosowski Report post Posted March 13, 2016 It comes down to what is supplied with the machine. Table, motor and attachments included in the price are the usual difference.The base machine is essentially the same. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brmax Report post Posted March 13, 2016 Your more than welcome Dale, a choice is what each of us considers at the time and most important what we for ourselves then value that. I am and many others are now and will continue to look around, So with that I would appreciate hearing or seeing on here any interesting points ya want to share. Be it space shuttle or rat rod I'm at the door with tooth pic listening, or carving the pic good day Floyd Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dgkfit Report post Posted March 13, 2016 hello all, thank you all for your help. i need to decide soon between a cobra class 4 for $2495 that i could drive 175 miles and pick up at springfield leather (and get the coaching) or order a ferdco pro 2000 from hoffman brothers and have it shipped here for $2223. the cost savings is not the issue. the issue is which is a better machine, and which outfit would give me better service? i like the use/maintenance videos on the leather machine co's website. hoffman tells me i can use them for the ferdco. i also like the fact that the ferdco is rated to sew up to #554, even tho i plan on sewing #346. so, which machine should i get? thanks dale Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wizcrafts Report post Posted March 13, 2016 Machine ratings on paper and in reality are often two completely different things. This will become obvious if you try to sew with #554 bonded nylon thread on a 441 clone. This thread is so large that you will probably need to use a #30 needle to bring the knots up (good luck with that). The pressure spring will probably not hold down the leather under such lifting force. It will need to be replaced with a stronger coil spring. Even if it does hold the material down, the shuttle clearances will need to be readjusted to clear that large diameter thread. The holes in the inside foot and the feed dog may need to be enlarged, unless the needle hits dead center. Enlarging the hole in the inside foot may weaken it to the point of breaking. You might need to use a "blanket foot" set which has more metal around the hole on the inside alternating foot and on the outside presser foot. More metal on the leather equals better hold down. So, if you intend to use #554 thread, ask the prospective seller to sew that size thread into a stack of leather 1/2 inch thick and email you a photo or video of the results. FYI: the minimum thickness needed to fully bury the knots of #554 thread is approximately 3/8 inch. If this will be your intended primary thread size, consider buying a Campbell Lockstitch needle and awl machine instead. You would need to order it setup to sew with #554 in advance to ensure the best results (heavier springs). FWIIW: I have owned two Union Lockstitch machines and both had trouble holding down 1/2 inch plus stacks of hard leather when I tried using #554 thread. The needle needed was a #5 and the awl a #6, which is the diameter of a large porch nail. Just withdrawing the awl sometimes lifted the leather unless the foot pressure coil spring was screwed almost all the way down. Then there was the fight holding it down during the viscous take-up cycle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Colt W Knight Report post Posted March 13, 2016 Hello, thank you all for your help. in response to one question, hoffman brothers wants only $2095 for the base pro 2000 machine with fabric toothed feet/dogs, lamp, speed reducer, pedestal stand. that is $300 less than the other guys' base model price. and that is all i need to start. also, they beat their shipping price to me, maybe because of their proximity. i need to sew thick fabric with #346 thread for the product on this site: workoutsandbags.com. everybody i have talked to says "buy a cobra", but this price is quite tempting. and i know hoffman brothers has been in biz for a century. also, the data sheet on the machine says it will sew up to #554 thread! thank you all for your advice. dale I bet that is where the money difference comes in right there. The Cobra and Cowboys come with leather feet. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wizcrafts Report post Posted March 13, 2016 Hello, thank you all for your help. in response to one question, hoffman brothers wants only $2095 for the base pro 2000 machine with fabric toothed feet/dogs, lamp, speed reducer, pedestal stand. that is $300 less than the other guys' base model price. and that is all i need to start. also, they beat their shipping price to me, maybe because of their proximity. i need to sew thick fabric with #346 thread for the product on this site: workoutsandbags.com. everybody i have talked to says "buy a cobra", but this price is quite tempting. and i know hoffman brothers has been in biz for a century. also, the data sheet on the machine says it will sew up to #554 thread! thank you all for your advice. dale I just reread the description of this machine. If you intend to use it for its intended purpose - sewing only cloth and vinyl fabrics - then #554 will be doable. These materials don't offer the friction and resistance to penetration that leather does. Also, the teeth on the feet and feed dog won't mark cloth like they would on leather. In fact, they help feed long pieces of material that would slip too easily on a leather sewing machine. Since there is very little resistance from cloth, a #28 round point needle will probably do okay sewing #554 thread into a stack of thick buffing wheels, parachutes, climbing or tow ropes, etc. None of the aforementioned applies to sewing any leather tougher than chrome tanned. But, you'll still need to exceed the minimum thickness to hide the knots. 8 to 10 mm would do it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wizcrafts Report post Posted March 13, 2016 I checked out the workout bags website and those bags look like they're sewn with #138 or maybe #207 thread. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BOS351 Report post Posted March 26, 2016 The Ferdco Pro is a great machine. My question is how available are the different feet you may need. Does it only come with whatever it has on it, or does it include a complete set of 5 or 6 different types. When you start needing different feet for different jobs, that $300 dollars cheaper may turn into more than the others, that include many different sets. Just a thought. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trox Report post Posted March 26, 2016 I will agree with both Darren and Wiz on this. The Ferdco Pro 2000 was once a Juki TSC 441 pimped to be a great leather machine. Juki head and parts set up for leather with a slotted plate and their famous patented lower needle guide (with I'm about to purchase for my clone now). Many will remember this machines quality and performance. The years after this with their own head but still mostly genuine Juki parts inside. All I see today is a Chinese clone with a small hand wheel (many other brands have a larger hand wheel mounted) and a economical base and motor. However, It might be a very good proved motor; It got good feedbacks. Both Hoffman Bros and Keystone Industrial sewing are good companies. Like Darren says, then it's all up to what accessories that comes with it. Good luck Tor Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Uwe Report post Posted March 27, 2016 Now I'm curious what this "famous patented lower needle guide" is that you're about to purchase for your clone! Do you have any pictures or sources for this famous device? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stelmackr Report post Posted March 27, 2016 UWE, here is a thread that has reference to the patent and pictures: http://leatherworker.net/forum/topic/41581-ferdcos-lower-needle-guide/#entry259182 Bob Stelmack Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Uwe Report post Posted March 27, 2016 Thanks Bob. I sure hope they fix that upgrade issue soon to make nearly ten years worth of posts show pictures again. Back when I was doing IT work, we tested these things before we rolled them out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
soccerdad Report post Posted March 27, 2016 So, is there nobody out there with a newish (last 2 or 3 years) Ferdco pro 2000 machine? Anyone with a newish Ferdco care to weigh in? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stelmackr Report post Posted March 27, 2016 FERDCO sold the business to Hoffman about 3-years ago. http://www.hoffmanbrothers.com/index.asp so, I assume that only repairs are done now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Art Report post Posted March 27, 2016 I think Hoffman is making a Ferdco machine, but I believe it is a Chinese clone the same as everyone else's. I'm not absolutely sure, but I don't think it is the Taiwanese Taking machine anymore. It may not have the lower needle guide (no foot) like the Taking did either. Call them and ask. Art Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
