ECO FLOW BLACK?

[TinyL]

Hello. My name is Chris and I'm a big noob to leathercraft. My husband persuaded me to try my hand at making a seat for his bike. A concern that has just come up, especially after finding this site well after I started this project, is that I painted some parts of the seat in the eco flow black. I have just gone through a lot the threads in the dye section and now I'm wondering if I'm screwed and the black will run or if it can be saved and sealed. Someone posted about using resolene with good results. I'd appreciate any salvage advice as I really like how the black came out but I do not want it to rub off onto hubby's butt .

Thanks in advance for help. This site is a wonderful resource and I don't feel like too much of a tool asking for adivice.

[whinewine]

Hello. My name is Chris and I'm a big noob to leathercraft. My husband persuaded me to try my hand at making a seat for his bike. A concern that has just come up, especially after finding this site well after I started this project, is that I painted some parts of the seat in the eco flow black. I have just gone through a lot the threads in the dye section and now I'm wondering if I'm screwed and the black will run or if it can be saved and sealed. Someone posted about using resolene with good results. I'd appreciate any salvage advice as I really like how the black came out but I do not want it to rub off onto hubby's butt .

Thanks in advance for help. This site is a wonderful resource and I don't feel like too much of a tool asking for adivice.

TinyL:

Some people use other stuff to seal the blacks (both eco flo black{=water-based} & spirit black{=alcohol/spirit based}). but my own preference is either neatlac or saddlelac. It prevents the eco flo from running in the rain & prevents spirit black (like Fiebings) from crocking (rubbing off on his butt). I would generally follow with a top coat of Pecards or clear wax or Sedgewicks or Aussie.

Very nice work, btw!

russ

[TinyL]

Thanks Russ for the info. Would I be safe in assuming that any other color(s) that I add would run the same risk? I got the eco flo color sampler and I'm thinking of adding red and browns to the seat. Also how is the neatlac and saddlelac applied? I got the satin shene originally to apply as a top coat. Should I perhaps forgo that and use what you suggested? Thanks again for your help.

Chris

[TwinOaks]

Welcome to Leatherworker.net!

Excellent seat work- are you sure you're new to this?

For what you've got, and the little bit that's black, I'd suggest trying to remove as much of the Eco as you can with a sponge/paper towel, and using a black permanent marker like a Sharpie. Then, buff well, and seal as prescribed above.

For all black, I prefer vinegaroon (search that term if you're not familiar with it) but the detail is too tight on this particular seat to use it. It would wick into surrounding leather, turning it black as well.

Edited December 19, 2008 by TwinOaks

[TinyL]

Thanks for the compliment TwinOaks! You know, I'm not a stranger to the awesome, wonderful AND permanent powers of the good ol' Sharpie marker. When my husband grouted our speckled black granite tile countertop, the supposed black grout came out to be a blah gray. I could not accept it, so I ran to staples, bought a 12 pack of fine tips and proceeded to color every grout line. I then sealed the grout with the sealer and you would never be able to tell that it was colored in. I saw this suggestion in another thread so I might go that route. Thank you so much for your help!

[David]

TinyL

It appears that you want to preserve the integrity of the black but you also want to continue adding other stain and/or color to the seat.

This can be done with NeetLac. Be aware if you NeetLac the entire seat it will not accept further dye. So just paint over the black that you already have on the seat and don't allow it to get on anything else. Now your current black is locked in place and you can continue the finish as you want.

Dave Theobald

[whinewine]

Thanks Russ for the info. Would I be safe in assuming that any other color(s) that I add would run the same risk? I got the eco flo color sampler and I'm thinking of adding red and browns to the seat. Also how is the neatlac and saddlelac applied? I got the satin shene originally to apply as a top coat. Should I perhaps forgo that and use what you suggested? Thanks again for your help.

Chris

Chris:

the spirit black is the only one that has the significant problem with crocking, the other spirit colors have little to none. It's a good idea to buff after using the spirit dyes anyway, just to remove any excess pigment that may remain on the surface. As far as I know, the eco flos don't have the same problem (I do like the black eco flo, btw, because it doesn't need to be buffed so damn much= almost none!), but they all will run in the presence of water- that's their weak point. Satin & super shene are fine finishes, also, BUT: because they are water-based, they will also cause the eco flo to run... Suggestion is to use the SPRAY versions (and spray a very light first coat, just to dry & seal the eco flo). Because of this aggravation, I prefer the lacquer-based finishes. Neatlac (which is being discontinued) has a spray & a non- spray version; saddlelac, as far as I know, has only the spray version (at least, that's all that tandy sells, anyway). The non spray neatlac version is applied with a scrap of sheepwool (trim the wool close & MAKE SURE all the fuzzies are off, otherwise they'll end up embedded in the dried finish (no matter which finish you use).

And David is correct= do all your dyeing before finishing with neatlac, saddlelac, super & satin shenes. All these things work as a resist & prevent the additional dyes from penetrating.

russ

[TinyL]

TinyL

It appears that you want to preserve the integrity of the black but you also want to continue adding other stain and/or color to the seat.

This can be done with NeetLac. Be aware if you NeetLac the entire seat it will not accept further dye. So just paint over the black that you already have on the seat and don't allow it to get on anything else. Now your current black is locked in place and you can continue the finish as you want.

Dave Theobald

So to be sure, I apply the neetlac to keep the black in(only where the black is), dye whatever else i would like, neetlac that, then neetlac the entire thing. I don't have an airbrush(yet) so what's the next best method of applying?

And by the way, thank you for responding. Your work is inspirational. I think I saw in another post how you like to do different things with your leather carving such as your samurai seat and I was really glad I came across your work. I've been blessed with the ability to draw and it was hard to see how to translate that into leather on other sites. You have given me the epiphany, so to speak, where I can visualize it now. I thank you.

Chris

[TinyL]

Chris:

the spirit black is the only one that has the significant problem with crocking, the other spirit colors have little to none. It's a good idea to buff after using the spirit dyes anyway, just to remove any excess pigment that may remain on the surface. As far as I know, the eco flos don't have the same problem (I do like the black eco flo, btw, because it doesn't need to be buffed so damn much= almost none!), but they all will run in the presence of water- that's their weak point. Satin & super shene are fine finishes, also, BUT: because they are water-based, they will also cause the eco flo to run... Suggestion is to use the SPRAY versions (and spray a very light first coat, just to dry & seal the eco flo). Because of this aggravation, I prefer the lacquer-based finishes. Neatlac (which is being discontinued) has a spray & a non- spray version; saddlelac, as far as I know, has only the spray version (at least, that's all that tandy sells, anyway). The non spray neatlac version is applied with a scrap of sheepwool (trim the wool close & MAKE SURE all the fuzzies are off, otherwise they'll end up embedded in the dried finish (no matter which finish you use).

And David is correct= do all your dyeing before finishing with neatlac, saddlelac, super & satin shenes. All these things work as a resist & prevent the additional dyes from penetrating.

russ

Russ thanks for the input. Do you know where I could get the sheepwool? Do you think they would have that kind of thing in the auto parts store in the car wash aisle. This project is turning into a labor of love and I don't want to wreck it. How many coats of anything can go on without losing the integrity of the leather? should i satin shene when i'm done with dyeing and then neetlac the whole thing or will there be a problem because of the water vs. lacquer based thing? Sorry to plague you with questions. I just want to make an informed decision, do the deed, have it come out well and then stick with this formula forever. You know people like that?

[whinewine]

Russ thanks for the input. Do you know where I could get the sheepwool? Do you think they would have that kind of thing in the auto parts store in the car wash aisle. This project is turning into a labor of love and I don't want to wreck it. How many coats of anything can go on without losing the integrity of the leather? should i satin shene when i'm done with dyeing and then neetlac the whole thing or will there be a problem because of the water vs. lacquer based thing? Sorry to plague you with questions. I just want to make an informed decision, do the deed, have it come out well and then stick with this formula forever. You know people like that?

Chris:

sheepwool scraps can be gotten through tandy, springfield leather... just about anybody who sells leathercraft supplies (perhaps, but probably not, through ac moore or michaels, though- but ya never know). I'd tend to stay away from auto parts stores, because their stuff is often synthetic & more often than not, is much more expensive than a bag of real scraps. It may work, but it'll be more $$ than a bag of scrap

As far as # of coats, you don't really need more than 2, imho, at the very most, & that would be for a light spray first to set it so the color doesn't run. If you apply too many, it can crack if flexed or bent. While I have used super shene (which is water-based acrylic, as is satin shene) in combination with (but not at the same time) neatlac, I would really say: stick with 1 or the other! If you want to experiment, & can afford to throw away a project if you screw it up, yeah, go ahead, but if something is 'a labor of love', as you appropriately term this seat, I wouldn't. On practice scraps, yeah, go ahead & play & experiment, but on good stuff, NO. Stick with what works.

good luck.

russ

[TinyL]

Chris:

sheepwool scraps can be gotten through tandy, springfield leather... just about anybody who sells leathercraft supplies (perhaps, but probably not, through ac moore or michaels, though- but ya never know). I'd tend to stay away from auto parts stores, because their stuff is often synthetic & more often than not, is much more expensive than a bag of real scraps. It may work, but it'll be more $$ than a bag of scrap

As far as # of coats, you don't really need more than 2, imho, at the very most, & that would be for a light spray first to set it so the color doesn't run. If you apply too many, it can crack if flexed or bent. While I have used super shene (which is water-based acrylic, as is satin shene) in combination with (but not at the same time) neatlac, I would really say: stick with 1 or the other! If you want to experiment, & can afford to throw away a project if you screw it up, yeah, go ahead, but if something is 'a labor of love', as you appropriately term this seat, I wouldn't. On practice scraps, yeah, go ahead & play & experiment, but on good stuff, NO. Stick with what works.

good luck.

russ

thanks for the tip Russ.

I'll check out Tandy again. I wish they were close by but then again that might be too dangerous monetarily.Have a great weekend.