hand sewing thick leather

[Pabs]

Hi all,

 

New to this forum…also, just getting into stitching leather by hand. I`ve been watching videos online and would like to play with this craft.  The other night I tried making something.  It sort of worked but I struggled like a fool on a few things.

 

I had two thick pieces of leather I was trying to stitch together.  I scored a nice clean line about 1é4 inch from the edge to put my holes.  I glued both pieces together and then made the holes (using a homemade diamond shaped awl ).  It worked but was real hard to get the needle and thread in.

 

One thing I had a difficult time with was making sure the hole on the backside came out on the line I had scored. The front side looked pretty good but the back was a little wavy… didn`t come out exactly on the line on every hole.

 

Are you supposed to make the holes with both pieces glued or should I have made the holes in each piece prior to gluing?

 

And for stitching, is it better to use the two needle technique or single needle?  I did mine using one needle and simply going back in the holes to cover the gaps.  Worked ok but not sure I finished it properly.  Time will tell! J

 

Anyway, real rookie questions but hey, that`s what I am!

 

Thanks

 

Pabs

 

 

[Tugadude]

Welcome to the wacky world of leathercraft!  Glad you want to learn.  First, a picture is worth 1,000 words, so show us and then tell us.  Your idea of thick leather might not be very thick to us.  There are a bunch of things to comment on.  First, the home made awl.  We need to know the size of the blade.  Then there is the needle size and thread size.  What, specifically did you use?

Then the question of single or double needle stitching.  True saddle stitching uses two needles.  Nigel Armitage shows how to do it properly on his Youtube videos.

If you struggle with keeping the backside holes straight it is because you aren't keeping the awl straight.  If it ism't sharp, you have to push too hard and it gets messy.  Buy a good awl or sharpen yours.  Or better still, invest in some stitching chisels.  Awl work is a learned skill.  Nigel covers it well, but practice is necessary in order to show improvement.

Some leathers are so thick and stiff that it is advisable to punch both layers first, but we need to know what you are using.  

Much more to say, but that is a start.  BTW, some members here use a drill press, placing the awl blade in the chuck and letting the machine help.  Not drilling, just the up/down motion, punching the hole straight.

 

what are you using for spacing your holes?

[Pabs]

hi Tugadude. 

 

thanks for the prompt reply.  funny, this morning I thought about using my drill press with the awl blade in it to keep it straight!

I can't get pictures up right now as I'm not home... but I would say each layer of leather was about 1/4 inch thick...when trying to punch a hole it felt like it would bounce back

the awl...it's home made.  took an old awl and took the grinder to it to flatten the blade with the intent to get the diamond shape.  what I found was that even after I made the hole it was still hard to get the needle through.,.. had to pull it with a pair of pliers 

 

I've seen the  stitching chisels and they look like the thing to have..I may very well invest!

 

as for spacing.. I made a jig..basically two nails through a piece of wood and another piece on top to keep the nails from coming out. 

scored a line with a gauge marker I have for wood working and simply pricked the leather with my little jig.. worked well to set the spacing.   I've seen that spacing wheel... something else that I will eventually get! 

I love making stuff with my hands so this craft drew me in...plus I get to make some cool stuff!

[Martyn]

21 minutes ago, Pabs said:

the awl...it's home made.  took an old awl and took the grinder to it to flatten the blade with the intent to get the diamond shape.  what I found was that even after I made the hole it was still hard to get the needle through.,.. had to pull it with a pair of pliers

Awls, needles and thread come in different sizes. You have to get the balance between all three, right. If you need pliers to get the needles through, then either use smaller needles, smaller thread or a bigger awl. What you are looking to achieve is a tight fit, but no pliers necessary for 99% of the time. The thread should fill the holes, with no daylight visible. The thread size, stitch size/hole spacing should be an appropriate match for the thing you are making.

Finally, if you think your awl is sharp, it probably still isn't sharp enough.

Edited April 6, 2016 by Martyn

[Pabs]

2 minutes ago, Martyn said:

Finally, if you think your awl is sharp, it probably still isn't sharp enough.

ha, same as in wood working...chisels can never be sharp enough!  

Edited April 6, 2016 by Pabs

[Martyn]

13 minutes ago, Pabs said:

ha, same as in wood working...chisels can never be sharp enough!  

If anything, I think it's even more important in leatherwork. Leather is tough as hell, so you need sharp tools just to get through it, but it's also very flexible, so it will deform, drag and wrinkle if your tools are blunt. A clean cut in thick leather needs an atom-splitting edge. You mentioned your back side stitching was uneven, this will improve with a sharper awl as the leather will deform less as you need less force to drive it through. Stabbing through and into a clean wine cork also helps with this, though it shouldn't be necessary if your awl is sharp enough.

Edited April 6, 2016 by Martyn

[Pabs]

57 minutes ago, Martyn said:

. Stabbing through and into a clean wine cork also helps with this,

hey Martyn

what do you mean through a clean wine cork? you punch your holes on a cork surface? 

I had mine on a piece of pine... soft wood so the awl would go into it fairly easily.  cork would be softer I guess.. but don't you need for the surface to be as hard as possible to prevent the bottom part from tearing and stretching?

[Martyn]

2 hours ago, Pabs said:

..but don't you need for the surface to be as hard as possible to prevent the bottom part from tearing and stretching?

Absolutely not. If you're stabbing into a hard surface, I'm not surprised you're having difficulty keeping your awl sharp. If you absolutely must stab through into another surface, aside from a wine cork, you should use stacked scrap leather.

Watch these...

 

 

 

Edited April 6, 2016 by Martyn

[Pabs]

awesome...I'll check those tonight when I'm home!

[Martyn]

There are lots of Heath Robinson tutorials on hand stitching leather, but Nigel shows the right way to do it. It takes a little practice, but it's not rocket science.

 

The alternative (and probably easier) method of making holes is to use a pricking chisel rather than an awl (or sometimes alongside an awl). These are designed to punch straight through the leather. If you want a recommendation that wont break the bank, look on ebay or amazon for stitching chisels and look for these (the black ones in the middle)...

I think they are called ProLine but they are Chinese made and often appear under different brand names. I paid £14BP on ebay for the set.

Material: tool steel
Length: 10.5 cm
Color: black
Tooth width: 2 mm
Tooth pitch: 4 mm (6SPI approx)
Quantity: 4 PCs (1 teeth, 2 tooth, 4 tooth & 6 tooth)

They make holes at 6 stitches per inch, which is a nice average size suitable for most things from knife sheaths to wallets.

here is a picture of the holes they make (the middle row)...

FYI, the top row is 5 stitches per inch, the bottom row is 8 stitches per inch.

and when sewn - the middle row again. Note the laft half of the row is sewn with 0.8 mm dia thread and the right half is sewn with 1.0 mm dia thread...

 

Edited April 6, 2016 by Martyn

[Birdman]

55 minutes ago, Martyn said:

There are lots of Heath Robinson tutorials on hand stitching leather, but Nigel shows the right way to do it. It takes a little practice, but it's not rocket science.

 

The alternative (and probably easier) method of making holes is to use a pricking chisel rather than an awl (or sometimes alongside an awl). These are designed to punch straight through the leather. If you want a recommendation that wont break the bank, look on ebay or amazon for stitching chisels and look for these (the black ones in the middle)...

 

As a saddler of some 28 years experience I have problems with the above statement, especially when it is directed to a novice!

PRICKING IRONS are just that, they are used to prick or mark the leathers surface to provide an accurate guide to the awl. They are not used to whack a hole through the leather. Doing so will not only damage the leather, but may result in tool damage as well!

The diamond shaped awl has been designed to slice and separate the fibers allowing the passage of the needles and thread, and then the leather 'falls back' and grips the thread.

And.... use a pony or clams to hold the work for stitching. Stitching by pushing an awl  down through leather onto a wood, leather or any other surface is a very crude and ineffective way of working.

The above posts regarding needle/thread/awl size and sharpness are far more relevant.

Gain stitching experience by  selecting projects that  develop stitching skills progressively rather than  jumping in at the deep end with the thick heavy duty stuff!

Regards etc.

 

 

 

Edited April 6, 2016 by Birdman

[Martyn]

6 minutes ago, Birdman said:

As a saddler of some 28 years experience I have problems with the above statement, especially when it is directed to a novice!

PRICKING IRONS are just that, they are used to prick or mark the leathers surface to provide an accurate guide to the awl. They are not used to whack a hole through the leather. Doing so will not only damage the leather, but may result in tool damage as well!

I agree, that's why I said Pricking CHISEL and showed a picture of a pricking CHISEL. Pricking CHISELS are different to pricking irons. Unlike pricking irons, they have long, straight, thin prongs and ARE designed to whack a hole through the leather, which I'm sure you know. You probably just mis-read my comment, right?

 

Regards,

Martyn,

Edited April 6, 2016 by Martyn

[Birdman]

For me, the clue is in the word PRICKING.

But each to their own.

I know what produces neat, secure safe stitching, and what doesn't!

[Martyn]

8 minutes ago, Birdman said:

For me, the clue is in the word PRICKING.

But each to their own.

I know what produces neat, secure safe stitching, and what doesn't!

Nevertheless, the pricking chisels shown are designed to be hammered straight through the leather. Many like them. Even some traditional saddlers.

" And.... use a pony or clams to hold the work for stitching. Stitching by pushing an awl  down through leather onto a wood, leather or any other surface is a very crude and ineffective way of working. "

Actually, no it's not. I can pretty much guarantee that if you used a pricking chisel and pre-made your holes, your stitches per minute rate would go up. It is definitely a faster way to sew than making one hole at a time. You should try it - at least before slamming it.

Edited April 6, 2016 by Martyn

[Martyn]

I just want to add, I'm a huge fan of traditional saddle stitching, making the hole one at a time as you describe. I think it's the most versatile and elegant stitching method - but chisels are fine too. The end result is still a traditional saddle stitch in every way and particularly for those of us who dont have decades of practice, it's much easier to stitch in straight lines and get the back nearly as straight as the front.

[Birdman]

I can never foresee the time when I would use your described method of working on any piece of MY stitching work that would require secure safe stitching.

Or any of my stitching for that matter!

If you are hammering holes through the leather by punching, how does the leather close and grip? How do you consistently and continually tension your stitching as you work?

Yes, pre punching holes may increase  the stitching rate, but to the detriment of the quality of the stitching. Hand stitching is about the quality, not the quantity.

In my line , a person could be riding 600kg of horse doing 35mph,  AND out of control, and hoping like hell that the person who has done the stitching knows his job.  

Whacking holes through leather  before stitching is definitly not the way to do it.

Like I said, keep punching holes for lacing jobs.

[Martyn]

Well I'm not a saddler and I dont make tack, so I'll defer to your experience. I can tell you though, I cant see how it's detrimental. There are more ways of doing saddlery than the traditional English method and they are not wrong, they are just different. French stitching horses are different to English stitching horses, but they are not wrong, just different.

Look here...

 

Front...

 

back...

 

I sewed that as a test piece a couple of weeks ago and while certainly not perfect, it is pretty uniform and straight, front and back. I made the holes with a chisel and I know I absolutely could not get it that nice with an awl. I'd love to be able to, but I think we both know it takes years. 

 

I'm not the only one who thinks they have their place...

 

Edited April 6, 2016 by Martyn

[Birdman]

34 minutes ago, Martyn said:

 "I can tell you though, I cant see how it's detrimental."

 

The answer:

"If you are hammering holes through the leather by punching, how does the leather close and grip? How do you consistently and continually tension your stitching as you work?"

 

 

Edited April 6, 2016 by Birdman

[Martyn]

Just now, Birdman said:

 

The answer:

If you are hammering holes through the leather by punching, how does the leather close and grip? How do you consistently and continually tension your stitching as you work?

I havent had any issues, but again, I'm not a saddler.

Importantly, I think it's reasonable to assume the chap who made the first post, isn't making a saddle either. There is more to leatherwork than making tack.

[Birdman]

7 minutes ago, Martyn said:

I havent had any issues, but again, I'm not a saddler.

Importantly, I think it's reasonable to assume the chap who made the first post, isn't making a saddle either. There is more to leatherwork than making tack.

Agreed. 

But learning to stitch properly from the outset is easier than correcting "bad habits" at a later stage.

Just for the record, here are two 'front and back' snaps (taken this evening with a phone camera) of my first ever piece of work when a student in September 1998.

It is  a 3.5mm bridle leather belt,  the double hand stitching is in two (now faded) different colours of 3/25 linen, spacing 8 and 10 spi. using  Dixon pricking irons.

The long stitching runs on this and similar pieces are taught to get the students work to be consistent both front and back as well as with correct tension. 

[Martyn]

28 minutes ago, Birdman said:

But learning to stitch properly from the outset is easier than correcting "bad habits" at a later stage.

Whether or not you see something as a bad habit, depends on lens of your experience.  I dont make saddles so I dont need to see stitching chisels as a bad habit, I have the luxury of viewing them as just another tool.

[snubbyfan]

My method for stitching thick leather.

 

[Martyn]

30 minutes ago, snubbyfan said:

My method for stitching thick leather.

Works for me.

[Tugadude]

I use both methods described above.  Lately, most with a chisel.  I have no problem with holes not closing up, period.  I always tap my stitching down with a smooth-faced hammer and the thread completely fills the holes.  Big fan of chisels here and Nigel Armitage, one of the best saddle stitchers I've seen, is too.  I'm not going to argue.

[Pabs]

wow...awesome info and insight gents!  it seems I have lots to learn!  I've been watching the videos all night.  loving it!

thanks again for the feedback