Restoring a W. Rose round knife

[Seagrove59]

I recently purchased this  small Rose round knife. Was looking for this size 3 1/4 " to 3 1/2"  blade. Got it fairly cheap as it appears someone was using it to pry things open. I have a local sharpener who I figure can help me with the blade damage.

I am looking to remove the handle to replace the ferrule and also to tidy the handle up. However I cannot find how it connects to the handle. There is no pin that I can see.

Can someone with experience with Roses give me some idea of how to get it off?

 

[bruce johnson]

Some are just jammed in and friction fit. Some are glued in. Some have a small wooden wedge on one side or the other of the tang.

[JerryLevine]

Hi there,

Lovely knife: I hope you can get it back into shape. I have no experience per se with W Rose tools, but I don't think that they will be radically different to other tools of that ilk. W Rose is now owned by Krafttool and their catalogue is here: http://cdn.krafttool.com/download/rose_brochure2013.pdf

The obvious pride in their craftsmanship and the age of the original company would suggest that they use traditional methods where possible and appropriate.  Many apologies if what follows is teaching Granny to suck eggs!

As Bruce says, if the handle isn't pinned then it's either a friction fit, with or without a wedge, or glued.  If it's a friction fit, you can wiggle it loose or gently use a drift to tap it looks with a hammer. If there's a wedge, I suspect that it's sacrificial and you'd have to break it or drill it out to remove the handle. Replacing the handle would require you to replace the friction that you reduced in the wiggling off process and then cutting and fitting a new wedge, if previously used.  Epoxy or plastic wood would allow you replace the handle effectively but is hardly traditional. Slivers of wood inserted into the hole with carpenter's or hide glue would be a more traditional way of doing it. Any wood worker will be able to give you more detailed help. To replace the bald in this case, I would use the same method as used use to mount an awl blade: clamp the blade firmly and then gently tap on the handle.

If it's glued, it's likely to be hide glue, judging by the apparent age of the knife.  Hide glue is applied hot and its use is described here: http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/woodworkingwithhideglue.aspx

You'd need reactivate the glue with moist heat, possibly with just the steam from a kettle (mind your hands!), which is more than hot enough to remelt the glue. Another thought might be to just immerses the blade only in boiling water (again, mind yourself!), so the heat is conducted up the handle and melts the glue. The key things are not to saturate the handle so it warps or splits and not to get the blade so hot you ruin the temper. 

I'd try the moist heat first. Other glues, such as solvent based or epoxy would prove more difficult and the latter will be almost impossible to remove without ruining the handle. Someone with more experience than me would definitely be required.

Good luck with your project.

All the best,

Jerry

[zuludog]

The blade probably has a narrow tang, with a tight fit; with or without glue. Hold the blade in a bench vice, padded so it doesn't mark the blade any more than it is already

Tap off the handle using a length of wood as a drift, again, so it doesn't cause any more damage

Try this before steaming, no point making any more work for yourself than needed

When you've finished, clean out the hole and refit the blade using epoxy glue

[Seagrove59]

Thanks to all, there is no wiggle to the blade at all, don't see any wedge. Raining tomorrow so looks like I have a weekend project.

[Trox]

Here is my Rose knife, I'm changing the handle and brass on it (when I got some time to spare). I will make the new handle in cocobolo/rosewood, silver solding the brass and use epoxi glue to fix it. I see no point in using a pin anymore when we have the modern epoxi glue. If you are using old fashion shell lack glue like they did hundred years ago, then a pin would be neccessary.   

Tor

[Seagrove59]

Finally finished the Rose knife, I feel it turned out nice. Was unable to get the blade separated from handle so for ferrule I utilized a twine wrap soaked in an epoxy resin the sanded up the grits to smooth. Had blade fixed by a Halifax local guy who sharpens with Japanese water stones, New Edge Sharpening, Peter  Nowlan. 

[Seagrove59]

Another photo

[Seagrove59]

Also picked up a C.S. Osborne, handle did not survive the removal, made new one by joining the butt end of original handle with a piece of birds eye maple I had. Used brass to made pins to join two pieces of wood and epoxy filler with saw dust from woods used to hide the seam. Then shaped and sanded like mad. 

 

Had New Edge Sharpening clean up the knife edge as there were some small chips in it. I like how it turned out, also repurposed the remaking top piece of handle to make an awl handle.

[MADMAX22]

Nicely done.