the back of my saddle is wearing the hair down on my horse...

[Traveller]

I'm taking the "remove laces" advice to heart and will have them out before my next ride! I'm pretty sure that's something I could do myself, even though I'm not even a saddle maker-wannabe (though I do suffer from serious saddle maker envy...).

As for the thin pad under the thick pad, Mike, my logic for it is two-fold: first, it's easier to clean than the thick pad so I don't have a dirt-encrusted thing on my horse's back, but second (and perhaps more important) is so that the wool felt doesn't rub and remove hair. Perhaps after I remove the laces, though, I won't need it to prevent rubbing, and I'm a firm believer in less being more, so the thin cotton pad could quite easily go.

If removing laces doesn't work, then I'll try a new pad before I try a new saddle. I've got my heart set on a custom saddle but need something in the interim and am really hoping that this saddle will bridge the gap. New pads are way easier to find and cheaper to try out than new saddles....

Thanks also, everyone, for the compliments on my horse! He's got a very good mind and seems to really enjoy working cattle, as we've been doing lately, and I hope to have him for many, many years to come.

Edited December 24, 2008 by Traveller

[bruce johnson]

Joanne,

Got any pictures of where the hair is getting rubbed out? Is it over the spinal processes (middle of the back) or off to each side in the loin areas? If it is the loins, both sides equally? Is it swirling or messed up when you unsaddle him? Is it just thinning or falling out. One indicates movement to me, and the other is pressure. I hate to bring up "dry spots", but are there any? (granted, with the snow in background, getting a decent sweat pattern might be hard) What's his back look like 5 minutes after the saddle is pulled? Tried him without the cotton pad under the impact pad?

I have pretty much found the saddles that bind from laces over the middle would have done it before 6 months no matter how he moves now. My logic (not always logical) tells me that as his back develops and he rounds up, he should be lifting that up more than have it binding now. Hollowing out should bind more. I'd agree that not lacing all the way to the back is best in most cases. I don't do it myself unless the customer insists on it (one was dang sure not yielding), and then I change my skirt pattern to flare up. I saw results of one of the early pressure pad studies several years ago that convinced me of that.

The thing I just can't wrap my brain around here is this. He is moving better, he is being treated by the physiotherapist and doing better, he is wearing off hair now like he did with the last saddle, and he is not perceptibly sore. Three of these add up to me, one doesn't. Interesting problem, and it is going to be interesting to see how this works through. Thanks.

[Traveller]

Bruce, the hair is worn equally over both sides as well as the middle. I won't be able to get photos until after Christmas (we're away for a few days over the holidays) and it's hard to see the shortened hairs in a photo but I'll gladly give it a shot. There's no swirling and there are no dry spots, though he hasn't sweated much since the weather got cold. I ride him reasonably hard in an indoor ring but since he's a pretty laid back horse in good condition, it's hard to get a sweat on him (though I'm sure one of you cowboys could do it, no problem!). Back when it was hot and he sweated under the saddle there were still no dry spots, and the saddle pad was evenly marked.

I'm with you, though, on things not quite adding up. Like you, I'd have thought a hollow horse would have run more into the back of a saddle than a round horse would, but this problem has only just recently started to show up under this saddle, and only since he's been moving out better.

I'll try removing the lacing and see how that goes. The trouble with worn-off hair is that it takes a while before you can see if what you've done has made a difference. Anyone know a quick way to grow hair? ;-)

Thanks, Bruce -- all replies are gratefully received!

[Traveller]

I just looked through your reply again, Bruce, and I want to say that the hairs look like they've been broken off. I don't know if that differs from thinning but it's all very equal -- the hairs are either broken off or they're perfectly normal.

Does that indicate pressure or movement to you?

As for not being perceptively sore, trust me this is not a horse who suffers in silence... he's a good, solid horse but he's an Appaloosa who is as sure of his opinion as any Appy who came before him, so I'm pretty sure that if he were sore, I'd hear about it.

Mind you, horses have made liars out of me on more than one occasion, so I'm quite willing to stand corrected!

[Tosch]

I just looked through your reply again, Bruce, and I want to say that the hairs look like they've been broken off.

Traveller,

every winter again members of a German western rider forum complain about hair being rubbed off. Their soluntion is they put a deer skin between horse and pad, hair-side down with the hair lying in the same direction as the horse's hair. They all report it helps. Might not cure the underlying cause, though.

Merry Xmas to all of you and I hope you are not snown in too bad.

Tosch

[Go2Tex]

You will most likely discover that your factory saddle is not laced all the way and it will be either nailed or screwed to the bottom of the cantle to hold them onto the tree. You will need to remove them completely from the tree and punch more holes so that you can lace them up a few holes close to the cantle and then leave the outer part unlaced. It's how I build all my saddles and then round off the skirts too. The problem is that the loose ends of the skirt will still be moving around back there and against each other and might even pinch. It might be worse that way.

Having said that. I doubt it is from the skirts being laced at the ends. It's done on almost all roping saddles and if it was a problem, more folks would be worried about it. Broken hairs sounds like friction to me. I notice you don't ride with a rear cinch and the back end of that saddle is probably moving around a lot as it is and removing the lacing won't help.

If he's not sore, then the hair is just long and being broken off due to movement of the pads, like the hair on a dog's neck from a collar.

Just curious though, does the saddle have real wool lined skirts or imitation stuff? It might have an effect on the movement of your padding.

[TwinOaks]

Just my opinion here, and I'm not a saddle maker, so take it as you will-

With the hairs being broken off, it sounds to me like the thin cotton pad is lifting the hairs a little bit and then they're getting folded back over, breaking them. This is probably caused by vertical movement of the saddle when you're riding. Also, the cotton pad might be moving under the gel pad, kinda like a sock moves inside your shoe. I'd say try a more traditional pad, or remove the cotton pad. For the some of the Arabians my wife works, they use a cotton pad, too, but on top of the gel pad.

[Hennessy]

First off, nice looking horse!

Second, my ex bought one of these saddles, he just fell in love with it...on the stand. Will give my opinion. Rememember it is only from my personal experience.

The ground seat in the one we had was awful. Especially at faster gaits, it would put you in the wrong position and we had problems with the horse. Had owned the horse for years and she started acting up. It was soaring her badly. Went back to a different saddle and the problems ceased.

Remember, this is just my personal experience and may not not be true of all of them.

The old Billy Cooks out of Greensville are awesome. The shop he runs now out of Sulpher is staffed by mexican workers. He was busted for having illegals at the shop a year or so back.

Here is a link to a local story about it: http://www.pryordailytimes.com/agriculture...eyword=topstory

Its a shame he isn't turning out the quality he used to.

first off you've got a ton of helpfull info to go over,i'll add an enlightening bit here also.billy cook greenville saddles of the 60-70's were well made usa leather ,trees,etc 70%wetbak labor,he trained many us n mex workers who splinter'd off over n over n over,a lot of times he subb'd work out to these quitters.his volume kept getting larger n lgr n lgr.train cars full of herman oak at a time.competition from other factorys that included worker loss to them,

pattern duplication ,price cutting,all the nasty stuff that goes with pursueing voluminous

business.he went broke and in n out of business ,like the tide in galveston bay[kinda].he made enemys in the immigration dept and they bust him at least every 10 years,all the other wet back enterprises around greenville never get touched[i've been around here 30 years]he moved to sulphur ok to get away from everyone,his wet back force paid rent n purchased stuff to live in that small town also,they got him again, is the fine 10,000per wet back?amazing person, who's juggeled unbelievable volumes of everything at once he shoulda been a general!he picks up 40 or so saddles every week from his former son in laws shop.now skip forward ,competion in volume means low overhead n labor n material,loss of quality is a surety ,trees from mexico,sth am lea,contract labor 60 - 90$ a saddle ,if your saddle falls in that mess your tree is probably to fault. the contract laborer dont care aboot symentry its hurry up n get r done phew so am i adios pete

[greg gomersall]

Traveller as stated take the lacing out ( the back 2 inches is sufficent). also throw that impact gel pad as far as you can, it will create many more problems than it will solve. A 100% wool navaho blanket and if a pad is needed a 100% wool pad. the thicknesses will depend on horse and saddle. The space aged crap cannont breath so the great sweat patterns they help produce are artifical and the skirts being fully laced are to rigid over the loin area. Greg

[Traveller]

Tex and TwinOaks, the broken hair is most certainly due to friction, I assume from the saddle moving back and forth across his loins. It's happened twice before -- once under the handmade saddle I originally had him in (not custom to him, and he grew out of it), and again under an English saddle (Passier) I used last winter that wasn't a great fit (it had to be widened to fit his shoulders and that seemed to have thrown everything off).

The first time it happened I was riding in a 100% wool felt pad without a cotton liner. I thought that maybe the relatively rough wool was part of the problem, which is why I'd gone with a liner this time.

And thanks for the BC history lesson, Hennessy! Knowing how much work and attention to detail that goes into custom saddles, I'm not surprised that it's hard to make relatively inexpensive production saddles of good quality. I'd originally looked for an older saddle for my horse but all the ones I tried were too tight in the shoulder for him. His sire was a halter-bred quarter horse and he passed on his bulk.

I'll get some help removing the laces to make sure it's done right and Greg, I don't throw all that well but I'm sure I could send that pad at least far enough away from my horse that it's safe! I still have the 100% wool felt pad I used under the first saddle and might use that again, but it's cut away a little where the fenders lie and the last time I used it, there was an indent on my horse's side after I pulled the saddle off. The pad was made by a local saddle repair guy who ropes so he must know what he's doing but pressure points from the end of the pad don't seem like a great thing. Of course, once I get a different saddle, the pressure could go away.

As for the thickness of an ideal pad, I'm thinking I'd rather not put something too thin under that saddle since I don't trust the tree 100%. What do you all think?

Thanks so much for all your feedback, folks!