Fiebing black dye losing color

[Goldberry]

Hey all,

I'm experiencing a problem with my Fiebing black dye. 
Often I get asked to make projects where people want my tooling to be painted black, with a bg that requires a antique or other overall color. Though when I apply the fiebings black dye first, it looks very good, until I apply an antique, other dye or even finisher. As soon as I try to do anything else with my leather afterwards, it seems most of the black dye just comes off again, only leaving a faint black grainy pattern (as if the dye has worn off due to excessive use of the product over several years). I do wait at least 24 hours after applying the black dye before doing anything else.

I have tried applying the black as last to prevent this, but then it doesn't seem to dye completely, since I can still see the underlying color coming through (I've experienced this especially in combination with the red dye) and I'm afraid it will rub of on peoples clothing and such because I did not use a finisher over the black.

Does anybody know why this happens or have a solution?
I'm aware of vinegaroon, but here it's actually kind of hard to get by nails that rust easily (they only sell galvanized in all the dutch hardware stores), and in my experience my batch that has been rusting for 6 months now still needs multiple coats to get a nice black look (and is a bit harder to work into details then the regular dyes).

Thanks in advance!

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

You aren't applying a resist before the dye, are you?  Over time, with hard use and exposure any dye will lighten and wear off to some extent. Even drum dyed black harness will need to be re-dyed at some point to regain it's color if it has been used even moderately hard. But it should not be happening before the project is even completed. Are you just using natural strap or tooling leather?

[TwinOaks]

First off, Welcome to Leatherworker.net, largest single compendium of leather working knowledge on the planet!!

Since you mentioned tooling the leather, I will presume that you're using veg tan.  If not, please advise us what type of leather you're using.

Next, are you cleaning the leather before trying to dye it?  Depending on the leather source, it's possible that there is some sort of coating on the leather that is simply blocking the dye from penetrating the fibers.  There may also be an issue with the application of the colorants.  After applying the dye, then buffing, you should be applying a sealer over the dye...before the antique.  The solvent in the antique may just be lifting the dyes off of the leather.

 

[TwinOaks]

regarding vinegaroon- you don't have to use Nails. Any ferrous metal should work.  That can be nails, scrap pieces, steel wool, screws, chain, etc.   If the mix smells strongly of vinegar, add more metal.  If there's no smell of vinegar and the mix barely works, add more vinegar.  From your description, it sounds as though the acetic acid was completely 'used up'.  Once your brew has steeped for about 2 weeks, it should yield an almost instant reaction----UNLESS---the leather has a coating on it already.

[Goldberry]

Thanks for the tips and the welcome, is a great forum to learn and her inspired! 

I'm using veg tanned indeed. All other colorants get in very well and stay in. 

Before I do anything I always wet the leather (for tooling), but this probably doesn't clean amy coating you mentioned (if my leather has this, though I think it doesn't) . 

I often don't resist before antique, since I like how some colors turn out when combined with the antique (red and green especially). I guess this then just doesn't work for all colors and black does require sealing =). I'll try this next, thnx! 

[TwinOaks]

If it's JUST the black dye that's misbehaving, then I think it may be the dye itself.   Which type is it, specifically?

[Thor]

Had that happen to me too with the black professional oil day not too long ago. It would bleed for ever and ever, but it didn't lose color strength at all. Reason, solution? No idea, sorry, but you're not alone.

[Goldberry]

Thanks for all the answers so far,

 

I'm using Eco-Flo antique paste (mid-brown) and Fiebings spirit based black.

Though a project or two further this also seems to happen to some other dyes (not all). It's getting quite confusing..

I often want to combine the antique and the dye to get the brightness out of the dye. I like the more natural tints.

Is there another proper way of achieving this? I'm often resolving now to dyeing after antique, though this doesn't seem to work out for all my dyes. (It's impossible so far for me to get a nice natural-dark green effect).

It seems I'm going through a lot of trial-and-error for these things, though I hope some experience from you guys can save me a lot of time and expensive material =)

 

Cheers