Planning Stage for my First Holster

[bob21804]

I'll soon be starting my very first holster - a pancake holster for a Glock 19 9mm. I'm making this for a buddy, with the understand that it probably won't be perfect, though I'll give it my best attempt. I'm especially apprehensive about this project, because (unfortunately) I'm not a gun guy. I'm absolutely NOT anti-gun, and really believe that the more guns in the hands of responsible citizens, the better off we all are. I just didn't grow up with guns, and unfortunately that's one of the hobbies I never got around to.  Even asking for advice here, I'm bound to be unfamiliar with gun terms you may use, so please bear with me. I've even thought, with my lack of gun familiarity, holster-making might be a poor choice for me.  BUT, there are a LOT of gun people living in my area, so if I can pull it off well, I'm sure I can have plenty of future orders. (and I think it would be really cool to make nice holsters!) With all that said, I'm anxious to do this, but at the same time, somewhat apprehensive. (I'm typing this at least partly to organize my own thoughts on this totally new-to-me project.) Here's what I'm thinking so far...

• I'll be using a JLS pattern (Thanks, Jeff!)
• My buddy is left-handed, so I avoided that mistake!
• Planning to use 8-9 oz. vegtan
• Not sure of the color - seems many are black. Might use an antique black that I bought recently.
• I also want it lined. I have some thin pigskin for that purpose.
• I'm not sure where I want to go as far as possible tooling. Should I keep it un-tooled, or look around for examples of tooled pancake holsters?
• Also planning to make the optional reinforcement, considering some sort of scrap exotic leather - possibly elephant.
• I've been reading through forum posts, and I'll keep referring to the JLS PDF instructions throughout the build. I've also watched a couple YouTube tutorials.

 From what I've seen so far, it seems that the basic construction shouldn't be too difficult, but there's a big difference between an "okay" holster and a NICE holster, and what might appear to be minor details can make a big difference in the end - such as precision in cutting and stitching, as well as design and tooling details. Sooo, at this point, I don't have any specific questions, but I'm sure I will as I get into it. No doubt, there are things I haven't even considered yet. I may cut the main leather tonight, but likely won't really get into it for a few days. At this point, ANY helpful hints, you can pass on to a holster-making-newbie will be appreciated. Any unexpected issues you may have seen other newbie holster-makers run into... Any online holster-making tutorials you think would be especially helpful...

Thanks!

Edited May 19, 2016 by bob21804

[Boriqua]

Well your off to a great start if you have one of Jeff's Patterns!

So lets see if I can offer any potentially useful info. everyone has their own way and experiences so take mine with a grain and see if it works for you.

I wouldnt attempt tooling on the first go around. Getting the tooling to look good on something you are going to dunk in water can be frustrating. I do it all the time but I have a little system that seems to work for me and when and if you want to here it just give me a shout.

Be careful with how thin the pig skin is. If it is very thin it can wear through over time. the glocks have softened edges so it shouldnt be a problem but if I make a lined holster I usually go with 2 heavier pieces to make up my 8-9 oz. Say 2 pieces of 4/5 or 5/6 and 3. If the pig skin is sueded ... dont use it. Soft interiors here in AZ are deadly to gun finishes. If you want to use something thin in your 8/9 oz then hit up ebay and get some goat skin. Tough stuff and smooth.

If you are using 8/9 and you have a 2 oz inner layer that is going to be one thick holster for a relatively small gun. Back in the day I used to use 9-10 for holsters and they took forever to break in and just looked clumsy. I wouldnt let my overall grow more than 8/9

Last thing about the liner .. Im sure you know already but sand where you will be gluing it together. Long ago I just glued it together and sewed it up and then when I wetmolded my layers shifted some. Not a huge deal but not a happy place.

I am incapable of lining up the front and back piece when they are the same exact cut. Im not sure why since I have been building things forever but once I put glue on the two pieces I go completely spastic. So what I do is cut my face then use my face to trace around to cut my back. It makes it about 1/16-1/8 larger than the front. Then when I glue I have plenty of room and just grind the back to meet the front and it has the benefit of making a very nice edge.

 I like my sew line in about 1/4 inch

I sand my edges to almost finish before I mark for my sew line. I sand them again lightly after sewing and I sand them one last time lightly after it has dried.

I find undyed leather accepts the water better than dyed so when I can I wait to dye until the end. I know plenty of guys dye first and they make great holsters but if I take a sponge to the dyed portion the water kind of beads and if I take it to the undyed it instantly absorbs. Since you will be dunking .. may not matter but it is my habit to try and dye later ... unless I tooled or stamped. Try it both ways and see what you like best.

If you are going to use an acrylic type antique think about throwing down some dye first. The acrylic can scratch and its nice to have a little color under there. If I were using an antique black I might first spray down some thinned black dye just so the leather has color.

I like to slick/burnish the inside of the holster with a little water and glyceryn using a thick piece of glass. I let it dry which takes no time and then glue my pieces together. It makes the inside nice and smooth and makes inserting the mold slick and painless. When the holster is finished the inside looks beautiful too. You said your lining but if you dont it might be something to consider.

Ok I have work I should be doing!! 

[bob21804]

1 hour ago, Boriqua said:

Well your off to a great start if you have one of Jeff's Patterns!

So lets see if I can offer any potentially useful info. everyone has their own way and experiences so take mine with a grain and see if it works for you.

Wow, Alex, thanks so much for taking the time to pass all of this on. If I can't find useful info here, I'm just not paying attention. I'm quoting your post and typing in red because there is so much great info for me to comment on or ask another question about.

I wouldnt attempt tooling on the first go around. Getting the tooling to look good on something you are going to dunk in water can be frustrating. I do it all the time but I have a little system that seems to work for me and when and if you want to here it just give me a shout. Ok. got it, and it makes sense. And you can pretty much count on me asking you about your little system at another time.

Be careful with how thin the pig skin is. If it is very thin it can wear through over time. the glocks have softened edges so it shouldnt be a problem but if I make a lined holster I usually go with 2 heavier pieces to make up my 8-9 oz. Say 2 pieces of 4/5 or 5/6 and 3. If the pig skin is sueded ... dont use it. Soft interiors here in AZ are deadly to gun finishes. If you want to use something thin in your 8/9 oz then hit up ebay and get some goat skin. Tough stuff and smooth. I should have thought about this. I have seen in mentioned a couple/few times, and I do have several weights of vegtan. In addition to the 8/9 oz., I also have 3/4 oz., 4/5 oz., 6/7 oz., and a milled 5/6 oz. so I have options. I've been wanting to order some goat skin to try for the lining in my wallets at some point, but I think I'll try that another time. Should I just go with two layers of 4/5 or 4/5 with 3/4, or might there be another good choice? Can/should the milled 5/6 be used or definitely avoided?

If you are using 8/9 and you have a 2 oz inner layer that is going to be one thick holster for a relatively small gun. Back in the day I used to use 9-10 for holsters and they took forever to break in and just looked clumsy. I wouldnt let my overall grow more than 8/9 Would you consider 8/9 total being best or might 7/8 or even 6/8 be best for this gun?

Last thing about the liner .. Im sure you know already but sand where you will be gluing it together. Long ago I just glued it together and sewed it up and then when I wetmolded my layers shifted some. Not a huge deal but not a happy place. I didn't know this. I've only used the pigskin lining on wallets and have only wet-molded a couple times - never with anything lined. But I know now.

I am incapable of lining up the front and back piece when they are the same exact cut. Im not sure why since I have been building things forever but once I put glue on the two pieces I go completely spastic. I can definitely relate to this. lol. So what I do is cut my face then use my face to trace around to cut my back. It makes it about 1/16-1/8 larger than the front. Then when I glue I have plenty of room and just grind the back to meet the front and it has the benefit of making a very nice edge. I'll make sure to do this. Thanks.

 I like my sew line in about 1/4 inch

I sand my edges to almost finish before I mark for my sew line. I sand them again lightly after sewing and I sand them one last time lightly after it has dried. Got it. makes sense. And I'm glad you mentioned placing the sew line in 1/4". I've wished I allowed more room for sanding edges on other items. I've been wanting to improve the smoothness of my edges and this sounds like it could make a big difference.

I find undyed leather accepts the water better than dyed so when I can I wait to dye until the end. I know plenty of guys dye first and they make great holsters but if I take a sponge to the dyed portion the water kind of beads and if I take it to the undyed it instantly absorbs. Since you will be dunking .. may not matter but it is my habit to try and dye later ... unless I tooled or stamped. Try it both ways and see what you like best. Definitely something I haven't thought about, and will. One question that comes to mind - If dying at the end, how can I do a good, thorough and neat job on the inside? Isn't this difficult? 

If you are going to use an acrylic type antique think about throwing down some dye first. The acrylic can scratch and its nice to have a little color under there. If I were using an antique black I might first spray down some thinned black dye just so the leather has color. The Antique Black is an acrylic (Tandy's Eco-Flo Antique Paste). I want to start switching over to Fiebings, as I was told by a woman at Sheridan Leather that the Fiebing's does a nicer job. When I bought their second to last quart of WyoSheen before they closed the doors, she said it is applied before the Fiebing's antique dyes, and greatly reduces any streaking and blotchiness. (all make sense?) When you say "spray some thinned black dye", I assume you're talking specifically about spraying a spirit based black. (All these choices in dyes, stains, etc. confuses me a bit.)

I like to slick/burnish the inside of the holster with a little water and glyceryn using a thick piece of glass. I let it dry which takes no time and then glue my pieces together. It makes the inside nice and smooth and makes inserting the mold slick and painless. When the holster is finished the inside looks beautiful too. You said your lining but if you dont it might be something to consider. I've read a few references to slicking with glass, but haven't done so (yet). Now, you would do this if using two layers of 4/5, for example, but not a thin pigskin. Is that right? Sounds like I might need to find one, as I'm now pretty much settled on using two heavier pieces to make up the 8/9. . I'm planning to use the actual gun (covered with some plastic wrap) when wet-molding. Am I right in assuming that's a fair plan?

Ok I have work I should be doing!!   Man, thanks again for taking the time and sharing such great info. I really, really appreciate it.

 

[Boriqua]

If you are following Jeff's Pattern than you will be using the re-enforcement piece sewn to the front. You would be way fine using the 4/5 and a 3/4 for the liner. Even without the additional piece that would be more than enough. When you glue flesh to flesh you make the result stronger than a single piece of the same thickness. Its like plywood in that the glued pieces are what give it additional rigidity and strength. My own regular carry gun is a CZ p07. Similar in size and weight to the glock and  my holster is 4/5 with 3/4 liner and it is as hard as wood. You can knock on it its so rigid and I use it daily. My gun pops in and out like it were kydex.

 

Yea that 1/4 back sew line give me plenty of room to get a nice smooth edge and not having to be to anal about placement of the glued parts.

 

Go ahead and dye your inside parts before you assemble. You dont need to burnish the inside if you are using a liner. Only suggest it if you leave the inside raw. In reality you dont NEED to at all but its a nice touch and a bunch of nice touches makes a wonderful final product.

 

Sorry about that ... yes I meant Fiebing's dye. It and angulus are all I use so I assume everyone knows what I mean which is stupid. I dont see why the water based dyes from tandy wouldnt work as well for an undercoat but I dont know what would happen to them when you applied the antique. I think it will just smoosh around the undercolor but I never tried it. Glock guys love black holsters so if I were making it I would spray some thinned dye with your nifty new airbrush after its dry let it dry and then apply your antique. Maybe someone has a different suggestion but that is what I would do.

 

 

Edited May 19, 2016 by Boriqua

[bob21804]

Perfect! Thank you again, so much! I won't pick your brain anymore (today), lol. Promise.

[klaykrusher]

Since you are using the JLS pattern I would recommend reading Jeff's comments to my first attempts with his M&P Shield pattern over at Critique.  I was off a bit on the stitching with caused the gun to sit higher than what the pattern was designed for.  Although retention seems to be fine to me, he was able to notice that right of the bat, and it didn't even occur to me.  He also discusses what to do with stitching for heavier or lighter leather.  His pattern's are designed for specific weights and adjustments need to be made when changing them.  I would say focus on cutting the pattern as close to spec and take your time.  I'm currently gluing up his G19 pattern now so we'll see how it turns out.  I'm using 8/9oz and will dip dye the whole thing.  Looking forward to seeing your project....

Edited May 19, 2016 by klaykrusher
correct spelling

[bob21804]

Thanks Klaykrusher. I did read that thread this morning, but didn't comment. Your holster looked great to me, and I also noticed how Jeff was able to pick out such a minor difference that I would never have noticed in a million years. But I'm sure that helps to explain his beautiful holsters. It almost makes me afraid for him to see my first attempt. lol.  And thanks for the suggestion on taking my time and being focused on precision when cutting the pattern. I will do that. I always try to remember, rushing might save a little time today, but the compromised results will last much, much longer. I never promise (or accomplish) perfection, but I try to do my best.

[JLSleather]

I work from the inside out.  Long as the inside fits, you can alter the outside a bit if you care to.

Alex is right -- I wouldn't use heavier than 8/9 on a holster that small - you don't gain anything, and I think it doesn't help the look.  Particularly if you're using the front "stiffener" panel -- more than about 9 oz is going to be unnecessarily bulky.  If you want to line it, you might go with a 4/5 "outty" and a 3/4 "inny" or a double 4/5.  Goat IS quite good, but veg cow will work well too.  With a lined holster, you'll likely find that the two layers are pulling against each other and the additional "stiffener" panel is unnecessary.

As for lining things up ... I pay attention to the 'witness marks' on the pattern.  If the'res a little variation in the way you cut out the front and back, not a problem.  And I'll throw in a comment about the stitch line here, since it kinda goes together.  I glue as shown on teh pattern, then when the glue is ready I line up the witness marks and stick down (it's possible if Alex has pieces sliding around, maybe let the glue set a tad longer before putting together).  Once it's stuck together, THEN I even the edges.  Again: I trim up the edges AFTER gluing and BEFORE marking the stitch line around the outside.

I like my stitch line a "strong 1/8" in from outside edges, but i want a consistent distance, so I even up the edges and THEN mark teh stitch line (divider or creaser).  Maybe doesn't matter, but i mark the stitch line even if I'm using the machine.  OH YEAH.. also about lining stuff up .. I don't punch the slots until it's together, then punch through all layers together (I hate lining stuff up too).  So, even edges, punch slots, then mark stitch lines around perimeter and up the slots.

Lefties, FLIP teh pattern.

If you're lining the holster, .....you'll want to stitch all edges.  This means that where I show the red lines (right side of P3 instruction) you'll want to stitch all the way from the back stitch line to the front (whether using the front "panel" or not).

I often make holsters with the leather dyed before stitching.  The exception being if I want the thread to match the holster, I'd likely construct and then dip the finished holster in the dye so it also dyes the (nylon) thread.

I tool holsters when asked to (you might be surprised how popular those old Stohlman designs still are).  As a rule, I don't prefer them tooled, since it adds considerably to the cost (often whether done right or not  ) and you're paying for a design which is intended to be concealed!  As a rule, tooled is fine for on the shooting range (may get you some business, too) or for open display. I wouldn't care to carry one, since I don't see it going so well somebody asks can they see your rig

Okay, if I forgot something, Alex prolly got 'er covered anyway!

 

 

 

 

 

[Boriqua]

Make no mistake .. I am the student and Jeff is the grand master! I only offer my experience. I have made to date maybe 150-200 holsters, small potatoes, and of those I really really liked 20. I follow Jeff's posts like the rest of you!  Good Catch ... I forgot to mention sewing the entire perimeter. I have a weird way of lining up the stitching since the bottom and top have to be sewn prior to attaching the front and back.

Edited May 20, 2016 by Boriqua

[JLSleather]

We wanna see this "weird" way, and then we'll decide if it's weird or just useful

 

[Boriqua]

1 hour ago, JLSleather said:

We wanna see this "weird" way, and then we'll decide if it's weird or just useful

 

LOL ...  oh hell no! I will refrain from setting myself up for open ridicule. I am so sure there is a better more accurate, expedient way than what I am doing that offering it up would set most new guys back years. 

Alex

[bob21804]

Thanks for posting, Jeff. I figured I'd see you here sooner or later and of course I really appreciate your advice. I read your post first last night, but I was so tired, I could barely keep my eyes open or think straight. But I did realize I think I'm confused on something. I know I need to read through your PDF instructions again (and again, and gain, slowly) but I'm also not sure if this is covered, and I'm leaving for a weekend music festival and camping trip in a couple hours, so I'll ask for clarification on this now, and poke my head in as much as I can over the weekend...

Jeff and/or Alex - If I sandwich together 4/5 oz. and 3/4 oz. to make up each of the two pieces (front and back - to end up with a holster that is finished/smooth inside and out), and stitch each of these sandwiches together all the way around before final assembly, won't I then have a double stitching line after stitching the front TO the back. Am I making sense?  Trying to get this straight in my mind. I'll also take the instructions and pattern with me this weekend, so I can refer to them.

Thanks!

[klaykrusher]

Once the double layers are glued and set up, just stitch the portion that will not be stitched when joining the two double layers together, around the sweatguard and around the muzzle end (optional I think).  Then after finally gluing the the front and back double layers together, just follow the regular pattern stitch lines.  hope that makes sense.

[bob21804]

8 minutes ago, klaykrusher said:

Once the double layers are glued and set up, just stitch the portion that will not be stitched when joining the two double layers together, around the sweatguard and around the muzzle end (optional I think).  Then after finally gluing the the front and back double layers together, just follow the regular pattern stitch lines.  hope that makes sense.

Yes, that makes perfect sense! Why didn't I think of that?  Thanks for the reply, Klaykrusher.

[JLSleather]

Yeah, that

This pic may be a bit larger, showing the way to mark the front panel on the pancake. The witness marks are on the ends of the vertical stitch lines.  If you start and end your stitching on the vertical lines, then the finished rig will look like the stitching is continuous (though it isn't).  Maybe I should split this a bit more.  No time to make one today, but maybe I can explain it clear enough.  Not finding my pics of this @!#!$#!!

With a lined holster, you would stitch these areas before joining the front and back.  This is the same step as stitching the top of a 'western' rig before folding.  The stitching in the vertical lines would then go back in teh same holes at the top and bottom.

On the right, I've "painted" some stitching holes.  Mark the first hole on the vertical stitch line. IF NOT using the panel, just end on the other stitch line.

IF using the front panel, then stitch to the first hole of the panel (shown blue) by piercing through with your awl and then run the front thread UNDER the panel edge (I've tried it going OVER.. it's not good   ).

This assumes that you are stitching the panel down and THEN lining the front of the holster, though that isn't absolutely necessary, it would help to protect the stitching.  If using a machine, you'd need to do like 3 stitches "by hand" in that area (1 under, 2 back).

 

 

Oh, that actual distance isn't critical, but I DO recommend a slight 'bevel" on the inside corner of the stitch line, instead of a sharp turn.  Takes a LOT of pressure off that corner, and I think helps the holster form a bit easier due to the radius on the frame of the pistol.  I mean this...

Just a stitch will do it.  Makes more difference than ya might think...

 

Edited May 20, 2016 by JLSleather

[JLSleather]

12 hours ago, Boriqua said:

LOL ...  oh hell no! I will refrain from setting myself up for open ridicule. I am so sure there is a better more accurate, expedient way than what I am doing that offering it up would set most new guys back years. 

Alex

Okay  .. well I'll put a 'note' in there, which is not 'mine', but more Gramma's 'trick'.  

I sometimes line up pieces (not just holsters) and then mark these "end" holes through with an awl.  Then take the pieces apart, stitch the top and bottom (in this case) from hole to hole.  Then put the pieces back together using permanent contact cement, but LINING UP THE HOLES BY INSERTING A NEEDLE IN EACH ONE.  So in teh case of a '50/50' pancake holster, you'd end up with something laying flat with 4 needles sticking up.  The tighter the needle fits the hole, the better the alignment, so keep holes small (which, I do anyway)

This WILL work, even sewing with a machine.  I start these below the rear slot -- doesn't matter just habit, mostly.  Sew up around from about 8 o'clock to about 11 (the left vertical stitch line).  When you're around the top left corner, pull out the first pin, and 'land' your stitch in that hole to make the turn.  Down, and over, and down.. pull another 'pin'... etc.

I'm not one who knows sewing, really, but I remember seeing Mom and Gramma put a hem in clothes... they'd pin the thing all around to get it where they want, and then remove pins as they sew.   Figured it had to work here too (and it does).

NOW, someobody is saying that sounds like a LOT of trouble just for what it does.  TRUTH IS, you're talking about a few seconds to make sure everything "works".  It actually takes a lot longer to SAY it than to DO it.

 

[JLSleather]

And long as i'm having coffee for way too long today, I'll add that I am re-working the 'avenger' holster for the 19 (and the 17, 22, 23, 31, and 32).  Not just quite happy, hoping to get back to that before long ...

[Boriqua]

That is EXACTLY what I was going to put out there but I thought there most be a more machinist method to it and not my hookey one. Since I leave my back piece a scootch over size I mark my 4 corners through the front and back panel with my round awl. Since I will be using a round awl for those four corners anyway and not a diamond awl it doesnt hurt. If its a lined then I sew my top and bottom from hole to hole and I know they will line up when I sew the 2 halves together. If I wont be doing lined but am adding a body shield I like to sew around the body shield anyway. I just think it looks better. When I am ready to assemble I add my glue to the two halves and i have some really heavy needles that are slightly difficult to insert. I put them in the front piece either at the two top corners or all four and then since  I had pierced my bottom I insert them there and then use them as guides and slide the top down onto the bottom. Then when I sew the front and back panels together it all looks seamless.

 

 

Edited May 20, 2016 by Boriqua

[Boriqua]

Sorry about that guys ... I regressed momentarily and worried I would sound like an idiot. I was once the Director of Creative Services at the Children's Museum of Manhattan. As any smart manager does I tried to hire people better at building and smarter than I, and I did. They had very precise well thought out ways of making things and knew math and such and I kind of always made things a little more free wheeling and intuitively which in turn made them insane! If you give me 4 rocks a ball of string and some paper I can probably make something cool ... but I cant necessarily tell you how I got there.

We built some wonderful childrens exhibits in our small shop but we definitely had different ways of getting there.

[JLSleather]

I don't mind soundin' like the idiot (again) ... actually quite used to it   I just run around blurtin' out what seems to work, and the fellas decide if they like that or not. Sometimes helps to hear a guy goin' on about what DON'T work ...

 

[bob21804]

I'm typing this a little after 3 am laying in a bunk in the cabin at my campsite. Just want to make a couple comments as its been fun reading the little back-and-forth between you guys. But Alex, if I read this right aren't you calling Jeff's technique for making sure things are line up "hookey". And also wondering if "scootch" is a machinist or other technical term. (Gotta try to start a little trouble if I can. )  OK, back to sleep. Camp coffee in a couple hours. 

[Boriqua]

If Jeff does it it is a "precision assisted alignment system" if I do it ..... its hookey. I love machinist, I like the way there sick brains work. They say things like .002 hundredths of an inch and stuff. Guys who went to fine art school and often leave the ruler in the other room when they need it us Scotch.

[JLSleather]

Actually, .002 is 2 THOUSANDTHS, not hundredths   

He talks like he jus' wanderin' round wit no idear what he doin', but his pics show the real story.

 

 

 

Edited May 21, 2016 by JLSleather

[TwinOaks]

Umm....Yes,  .002" is two thousandths.  But if you're talking '.002 Hundredths', wouldn't that be just a smidgen under a frog's hair?

[Boriqua]

2 hours ago, JLSleather said:

Actually, .002 is 2 THOUSANDTHS, not hundredths   

LOL !!! See what I mean.

Quote

wouldn't that be just a smidgen under a frog's hair?

Twinoaks ... I like the way you think!!