Let's Talk About Steel

[rawcustom]

I'm not sure why you keep jumping back to chromium content. If you read my statement I say that an alloyed steel is better in knife making than a simple (carbon and iron only) steel. 

I work with 1080 and I like it for certain applications. Again, not everything needs to be stainless or high-alloy, but it is far from being a tough steel. If were going to talk tough steel I would start with CPM-3V. If you just want to talk toughness in general I would go with S7. 

Also 1080 used in knifemakig is not a true simple steel. It contains manganese, sulfur, phosphorous, and sometimes vanadium.

[rawcustom]

Just a recap, before too many feathers get ruffled. I haven't stated a single steel is the best for all purposes because that's opinion. I have stated the difference between some common marketing words out there, and will state again that yes, an alloy steel will out perform a simple steel except price, and I guess I should add work ability. I'm not saying stainless is best, or high-carbon is best. I am saying that a properly alloyed steel is better than not. If you want edge retention look for vanadium, if you want shock resistance look for lower chromium and molybdenum, if you want corrosion resistance than chromium or nitrogen steel. Some alloyed steels don't need much alloy, 0.5% vanadium makes a difference, but they are still better knife blades than those without. 

[Martyn]

58 minutes ago, rawcustom said:

I'm not sure why you keep jumping back to chromium content.

Because 12% is pretty much the industry standard for the definition of stainless steel. Asking me to pin down one single carbon alloy and ask me to pitch it against all alloys, isn't really a fair stainless versus carbon comparison. If you are going to call any with a whiff of chrome as 'stainless' then yes, you will find some that are perhaps tougher, or as tough for certain applications. Take L-6 for example, it has less than 1% chrome, you cant really call that stainless. What you are really saying, is that a tailored alloyed steel is better for a specific application than a non-tailored alloy steel. Well, yes, obviously. But that wasn't really the point you were pushing, was it?

 

5 hours ago, rawcustom said:

Since this topic could go on for an extreme length I will limit this particular discussion to one of my favorite misconstrued topics: Stainless vs High Carbon steel

 

Edited June 2, 2016 by Martyn

[Martyn]

46 minutes ago, rawcustom said:

If were going to talk tough steel I would start with CPM-3V

Look here...

https://youtu.be/2jQjli3F0p4?t=304

A CR Green Beret in CPM s35vn, properly ht as well, one would assume being a CR. I've never had a green beret, but I have owned a CR pacific, a similar knife also in CPM s35vn, I sold it because I just didnt feel it was the right steel for the kind of knife. beautifully made thing though.

 

[Martyn]

1 hour ago, Art said:

The whole idea of a custom knife is CUSTOM.

I couldn't agree more Art. The only knife that I own which I consider to be a true custom is this one...

 

It was made for me, to a drawing I supplied. All the materials, shape, profile, plunge angle, hamon everything was specified by me and made exactly to those specs. That's custom - not selecting a handle colour from a choice of 6.

[rawcustom]

Martyn, you really need to stop posting as you clearly are trying to draw a stainless be nonstainless comparison that I have stated in near every reply is not the purpose of this thread. You argue against alloy steel by citing an alloy steel so I see no validity in continuing a discussion trying to educate you beyond stainless and nonstainless. At thus point your simply diluting the thread with nonsensical replies. If you really wish to continue than I suggest we PM. Otherwise you only help confuse those wanting to learn something. I'm sorry I can be more patient but you continue to argue against the same side you are cheering. And the video is cute but pointless. All it proves is you can break a knife with a hammer and spoiler alert, you can break all knives with a hammer.

[Martyn]

You've lost me I'm afraid. Given that all steels are alloys, even plain carbon steels, an 'alloy steel is better than alloy steel' argument doesn't really make sense.

OK, let me switch it around and take the argument from you. I will say that properly heat treated 1080 carbon steel is always tougher than any steel alloy with more than 12% chrome? Do you agree with that statement? If yes, then I've nothing more to add. If not, please explain why not and cite examples.

 

 

 

Edited June 2, 2016 by Martyn

[rawcustom]

Back to arguing for stainless vs nonstainless. I suppose I could keep up this pointless back and forth. Art you are following, please delete this thread. I feel Martyn has won the disinformation campaign and this will only serve to confuse people more than help. The High-carbon vs Stainless idiocracy continues!

[Martyn]

hey, hang on that's more than a bit unfair. In your first post you did talk at length about stainless v non  stainless and did cite 12% Chrome content as pretty much the definition of stainless and you did write

6 hours ago, rawcustom said:

Since this topic could go on for an extreme length I will limit this particular discussion to one of my favorite misconstrued topics: Stainless vs High Carbon steel

...and you did title the thread 'lets talk about steel' not 'let me lecture you about steel but dont dare disagree'.

...and though I dont call myself a knife maker, I have made my own knives, I have been an avid collector for a long time, I know many people in the industry and it is my pet subject too.

 

[Art]

I've seen this happen on more than a few knife lists over the years, including the knife-list which was very prominent in the '90s.  Grind vs. Forge, Stainless vs. Plain Carbon, Exotic alloys and metallurgies vs. low chrome tool steel.  They used to go on and on ad infinitum; in fact, they're still going on today, I am sure.  So I guess we can entertain this again here.  

Now we are going to have some ground rules, that will be enforced by yours truly.  

1.  One short sentence (not like a lawyer does either) that states the point you are trying to make or defend.  You can go on after that, but this rule just keeps things from going off into the weeds and confusing things.

2.  Posters may not disparage the birthright or genetic origin of others unless definite proof is available.  Also the lineage and morality of those in someone's birth line are out of bounds.

3.  Any and all other rules of Bulletin Board (remember I'm Old) etiquette must be applied.

Thanks,

Art -- Moderator