Barry King vs. Jeremiah Watt

[flathat4life]

Since im new here gess i'll introduce my self. My name is Jed Rice and im 15 years old. I'm completely self taught and have been doing leather work for about two years. I started out by makin myself a pair of chinks and a head stall. I realy enjoy biulding armitas and other tack items for myself and other working cowboys in the great-basin/nevada area. I'm currently trying to start my first saddle. Things are a little premature still but i hope to have a tree and some herman oak sides ready to go in the next couple of months.(this forum will be a BIG help on that project forsure!) I'm looking at upgrading all of my craftools to some better grade stuff (Bary King- maybe Jeremiah Watt) but i want your guys opinion first.

I was looking at trying barry kings basket and border stamps, swivle knife, edgers and possibly a taperd head round maul.

Is there a better bang for the buck, what stuff do you guys prefer? i'v seen a little talk on here about JW tools. are his edgers better that barrys? what else is on the market for high quality basket stamps.

I apreciate your guys input.

P.S.- This forum is awsome. i'ts great to finally be able to talk to people with the same interst. i just found this place a few days ago and i cant get of it =). you guys will definately be a big help when i start my saddle.

[bruce johnson]

Jed,

My thoughts, and there are a ton of different opinions and experiences on the forum. Exactly what to get depends on your budget and what to get first. The best bang for the buck is stamping tools from Barry in my mind.

Swivel knives - I have one from Barry, one from Henley, an old Hackbarth, and two Old Smoothies - that means either I don't know which one is best, I use each for different things, or there really isn't that much difference once you get to that level.

Edgers - I have some from Bob Douglas, some from Barry, some from Jeremiah, and some old Gomph and Osbornes. I had a set from Ron Edmonds too. Pick what works for your budget, there really aren't any that I would say, "For sure don't buy". I have a few different patterns, and use them all. Don't ignore a good set of old ones.

Border stamps - Pick whoever has a design you like. Barry King, Jeremiah Watt, Wayne Jueschke, Ellis Barnes all have some a little different and some the same style. Pick a couple medium sized ones in different patterns to start with maybe.

Baskets - Personal preference - I like baskets that are not real long and narrow. I like baskets that have decently thick legs. Skinny cutting legs tend to be harder to keep lined up. If you can run them and keep them square - great. The thicker legs are a little more forgiving. I like there to be some depth between the legs at the ends of the stamp. That lets me stamp the centers relatively deep and make the weave "pop". The stamp is not mashing down everything. I like varying centers, if nothing else to keep me interested. The baskets I use the most are from Barry King and then Wayne. They are the shape and have the centers and legs I like. I have one from Jeremiah in the users. It was longer and shallower between the legs than I liked, but I liked the center pattern. I shortened it up on each end with a grinder. I filed and polished out between the legs to deepen that area and made it the way I like them. I had some from Ellis Barnes, and they were relatively longer and the legs were thin. Some guys like that, personal preference. The guy that bought them is happy as a clam. He likes that style and lot of people do. For geometrics again most of all of what I use comes from Barry, Wayne, and Jeremiah. For flower centers - Barry, Wayne, and some from Ellis I have modified.

For mauls I use tapered mauls from Wayne for the baskets and geometrics. They are more weighted to the head and give me the heavier feel I like for set stamping. For lighter stamping, smaller stamps, and walking tools I use straight mauls from Barry. Barry's are more neutrally weighted.

[flathat4life]

Jed,

My thoughts, and there are a ton of different opinions and experiences on the forum. Exactly what to get depends on your budget and what to get first. The best bang for the buck is stamping tools from Barry in my mind.

Swivel knives - I have one from Barry, one from Henley, an old Hackbarth, and two Old Smoothies - that means either I don't know which one is best, I use each for different things, or there really isn't that much difference once you get to that level.

Edgers - I have some from Bob Douglas, some from Barry, some from Jeremiah, and some old Gomph and Osbornes. I had a set from Ron Edmonds too. Pick what works for your budget, there really aren't any that I would say, "For sure don't buy". I have a few different patterns, and use them all. Don't ignore a good set of old ones.

Border stamps - Pick whoever has a design you like. Barry King, Jeremiah Watt, Wayne Jueschke, Ellis Barnes all have some a little different and some the same style. Pick a couple medium sized ones in different patterns to start with maybe.

Baskets - Personal preference - I like baskets that are not real long and narrow. I like baskets that have decently thick legs. Skinny cutting legs tend to be harder to keep lined up. If you can run them and keep them square - great. The thicker legs are a little more forgiving. I like there to be some depth between the legs at the ends of the stamp. That lets me stamp the centers relatively deep and make the weave "pop". The stamp is not mashing down everything. I like varying centers, if nothing else to keep me interested. The baskets I use the most are from Barry King and then Wayne. They are the shape and have the centers and legs I like. I have one from Jeremiah in the users. It was longer and shallower between the legs than I liked, but I liked the center pattern. I shortened it up on each end with a grinder. I filed and polished out between the legs to deepen that area and made it the way I like them. I had some from Ellis Barnes, and they were relatively longer and the legs were thin. Some guys like that, personal preference. The guy that bought them is happy as a clam. He likes that style and lot of people do. For geometrics again most of all of what I use comes from Barry, Wayne, and Jeremiah. For flower centers - Barry, Wayne, and some from Ellis I have modified.

For mauls I use tapered mauls from Wayne for the baskets and geometrics. They are more weighted to the head and give me the heavier feel I like for set stamping. For lighter stamping, smaller stamps, and walking tools I use straight mauls from Barry. Barry's are more neutrally weighted.

bruce,

thanks for taking the time to post your thoughts. i appreciate it!

i can tell you and i have the same preferance taste when it com to some of this stuff. i to prefer the broader basket stamp with a deeper set to it(althoe i have seen some skinny deep set ones i like ones i liked). i also prefer a hevyer head on my maul to set big stamps(baskets, geos., ect.) and a more balanced one for smaller stamps.

thanks for clarifying the differance in feel betweeen the two brands. -you input will realy help-

[hidepounder]

I am 100% with Bruce on this! Once you make the decision to get into professional quality tools, it all comes down to personal preference. What I have discovered is that no one maker is better at everything. I use bevelers from one maker, shaders from another and geometrics from a third and so on. The same applies to hand tools. They all have their specialties and price ranges vary. When it comes to round knives, swivel knife blades, edgers and such, I happen to prefer the older hardened steel tools over the newer stainless ones. Again, a matter of personal preference. I can tell you with complete confidence, that it is worth the expense to travell to one of the shows where you can see all of these suppliers under one roof and have an opportunity to compare their products! Even if you didn't buy a single thing, it is a necessary move to enable you to decide exactly what you like. Hope this helps....

Bob

[flathat4life]

thanks hidepounder-

i have thaught about doing somthing like that (maybe this summer=) i'm geting my driver licence this week so then i will be a little more mobile.

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Is there any body else out there with a opinion? would like to hear from you!

- thanks guys-

Edited January 1, 2009 by flathat4life

[jwwright]

Jed.........you have recieved good advice from the others all ready.......I sure agree with what they say. I don't think you can go wrong with tools from any of the high quality makers. Personally, I have gravitated toward Jeremiah Watt's tools. I use edgers, round knives, stamps, dividers, and stitch groovers from him daily. For sewing awls, Bob Douglas is the man.....and he is a great source for many other tools, both new and vintage such as heel shaves, bouncers, etc. I like Barry King stamps and mauls as well. For drive punches, I have been pleased with the master tool line from Weavers. Just some of my thoughts...........JW.

[flathat4life]

THANKS ALOT!! for your guys input on this. all your opinion have REALY helped so thanks.

i realize now that im only like the one-hundredth person to ask these questions about barry king and JW tools but thanks for takeing the time to post your thought and helping me out... i realy appreciate it!

..... ok so i think i have pretty much much every thing figured out as far as what i plan on ordering but i need one more thing.... i would like to know what weight(pound or oz.) of the mauls you guys use and what you use them for... what little exsperiance i do have with mauls have been reaaly old ones that i couldn't pull weights off of.... thanks again-

[bruce johnson]

Jed,

My lineup.

12 oz and 16 oz Barry King straight - most small stamps, walking tools, and shaders

16 oz Wayne Jueshcke tapered- medium and larger baskets, medium block stamps

32 oz Wayne Jueschke tapered - larger blocks

32 oz Barry King straight - rivet setting, end punches, and slots punches. Good secure handle shape for "whacking".

[jwwright]

I don't do much in the way of carving, just stamping mainly, so my mauls are at about the 32 oz size for stamping and punching, etc. In a realted topic, I will offer my observation about any type of punch,,,,,,drive, end, etc. You can find some brands of punches that the striking end is not totally flat, they are somewhat rounded or beveled on the edges. It is pretty easy to not strike those squarley with a maul, and you hit kind of glancing blow. The pain in your hand gets old in a hurry. JW

[hidepounder]

The mauls I use are as follows:

12 oz tapered maul by Barry King for tooling on 3-4 oz leather. (rarely used).

16 oz maul from Bob Beard for general tooling.

20 oz maul from Bob Beard for flower centers, basket stamping, geometric borders and shading on larger leaf patterns.

24 oz maul from Bob Beard for strap end, bag and hole punching. rivet setting.

I sold my 32 oz Osborne maul and wish I had it back!