Understanding Needle Points/Systems

[MG513]

Hey yal long time no post! Hoping some pros can help me with something. I'm looking for experiences, not just google articles, hence why I'm here! 

I have a 810 post bed machine. I had started a project (which is now complete), sewing some sneaker uppers, but toward the end I snapped a needle and found I had been sewing with a size 22. It's ok, but I really wanted to sew with a smaller needle to get a smaller more "high end" looking stitch. I went to put it in a new needle that was provided, but none of them worked. None of them would catch the bobbin thread, from size 16-21. Come to find out they sent me the wrong needle system, as I needed dpx5 and those werent it. 

So now I'm on ebay trying to find needles but all of these numbers and letters are confusing. There are lots of options.

2 part question: 1. If I buy needles, as long as it's the right system, can I use a smaller size?? For instance, it's seems my machine is set for a size 22, will a size 18 or 20 work?? For 69 thread.

2. If that answer is no, is it worth changing something internally so that I can sew with a smaller needle? I would have to be walked through this over the phone, as I am 4 hours away from the nearest professional. 

For more background, I don't plan to sew over 6 oz of leather. I sew Python and lamb skins, and would like to sew croc and stingray soon. But I also want to sew fabrics, like Pendleton and suedes, which look like requires ball points but leather requires diamond. (Any info on points appreciated too)

Any advice?? Thank you!!!! 

[TinkerTailor]

Yes, you can change sizes within the limits of a particular machine. Some machines may not be able to use the largest/smallest needles in a needle system because of design. Needle systems can cover a wide range of machines.

Changing needle size a drastic amount  can mean readjusting the hook clearance. Frequently machines are tolerant to 1 or two sizes up or down without adjustment. If you are going smaller, just try it. The worst that will happen is it won't stitch. Put in a bigger one and the needle may contact hook and damage it. Handwheel first if going to a different size needle. If the machine needs a hook adjustment, they are usually pretty simple, and are in the manual for the machine.

When you say 810 post, is it a techsew? Give them a call if it is, they will walk you through it. They are a site sponsor here, banner at the top.

As far as sizing, needles are matched to thread size. Here is a chart i like:

http://www.thethreadexchange.com/miva/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=needles_thread_size_chart

and another from a site sponsor that is easier to read, with a little less info:

http://tolindsewmach.com/thread-chart.html

[MG513]

29 minutes ago, TinkerTailor said:

Yes, you can change sizes within the limits of a particular machine. Some machines may not be able to use the largest/smallest needles in a needle system because of design. Needle systems can cover a wide range of machines.

Changing needle size a drastic amount  can mean readjusting the hook clearance. Frequently machines are tolerant to 1 or two sizes up or down without adjustment. If you are going smaller, just try it. The worst that will happen is it won't stitch. Put in a bigger one and the needle may contact hook and damage it. Handwheel first if going to a different size needle. If the machine needs a hook adjustment, they are usually pretty simple, and are in the manual for the machine.

When you say 810 post, is it a techsew? Give them a call if it is, they will walk you through it. They are a site sponsor here, banner at the top.

As far as sizing, needles are matched to thread size. Here is a chart i like:

http://www.thethreadexchange.com/miva/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=needles_thread_size_chart

and another from a site sponsor that is easier to read, with a little less info:

http://tolindsewmach.com/thread-chart.html

Hey thank u so much! I'm familiar with Bobs but as u said it's a little vague, the other really was informative! 

Im thinking I will buy some size 18 or 20. And of course 22 in case the other 2 don't work, and buy a couple different points to see which hole I like best.

[TinkerTailor]

A needle too small=no-go. A needle too big for the thread will work, but the size of the hole limits the stitch length to longer stitches and can look like the thread is swimming in the hole. Sewing at 20 spi with a #25 needle will likely cut the leather in half for instance.

For 69, I would get 16, 18, 20. Size 22 is likely to be way too big. It is matched to 138. 20 is likely too big as well.

Edited October 22, 2016 by TinkerTailor

[hackish]

I've also had some success with different needle systems where it simply required adjusting the height of the needle bar to ensure the scarf passes the hook at the right place. The downside I've found with longer needles, for example, is more deflection as it's going through the material. Maybe in your case you could still use the needles you got - provided they are similar enough.

[MG513]

On October 22, 2016 at 0:41 PM, TinkerTailor said:

A needle too small=no-go. A needle too big for the thread will work, but the size of the hole limits the stitch length to longer stitches and can look like the thread is swimming in the hole. Sewing at 20 spi with a #25 needle will likely cut the leather in half for instance.

For 69, I would get 16, 18, 20. Size 22 is likely to be way too big. It is matched to 138. 20 is likely too big as well.

Sorry I'm so late and thanks a lot for that info! 

I decided to get 18, 20, and 22s. I opted not to get 16s. I just didn't want to be disappointed. I got the right system, dpx5, and I got some "reuglar point", which I'm going to try and some some jeans and wool material with, and of course leather points. 

I think I will need titanium point to sew stingray?? I'll get those once I discover which of these sizes actually work!

[MG513]

On October 24, 2016 at 1:36 PM, hackish said:

I've also had some success with different needle systems where it simply required adjusting the height of the needle bar to ensure the scarf passes the hook at the right place. The downside I've found with longer needles, for example, is more deflection as it's going through the material. Maybe in your case you could still use the needles you got - provided they are similar enough.

Yea, when I got my first machine, a consew 206, I though I needed size 18 needles. So I bought some. Eventually, I tried to use it and it worked, but barely. Would make a stitch or 2, then it would just put holes through the leather.

I was confused for a while. Turns out there was a size 22 in there originally lol. (This is the old 206, and had been sitting for years before I bought it). It's because of this experience that I think I may at least be able to go to a size 20 on my post bed, with the right needle system, maybe a 18 simply because it's a new machine and all tuned up.  

I guess we will find out! I'd love to use a size 16 but I really don't want to alter my machine because id also like to use the roller to my advantage sew some more complicated card holder wallets with #138 thread

Edited October 26, 2016 by MG513