dying leather dark with lighter highlights

[Go2Tex]

Received this pic from a customer who wants something like it. The question is: If you were going to try to replicate this effect, how would you go about it? I tried it with resolene as a resist and then Fiebings medium brown antique, then some Fiebings medium dye. The results were not quite the same as the picture. The edges are dark brown and/or black dye. That's not the problem. I can do that. It's the nice light highlights on the pedals and leaves that have been obviously resisted with something and I can't seem to replicate this.

Anybody care to suggest a solution? What will resist dye?? I tried saddle lac sprayed on spots and then dyed. Maybe I didn't wait long enough for it to dry, because my results were inconsitent. Oil dye definitely went right through resolene like it wasn't even there. Regular leather dye seemed to be resisted better but not good enough.

Also, my color does not match using medium browns. I get more of a redish color. It might be the lighting of the picture, of course, but I would like to match it as it appears.

Any ideas will be appreciated. Thanks.

[Rawhide]

Received this pic from a customer who wants something like it. The question is: If you were going to try to replicate this effect, how would you go about it? I tried it with resolene as a resist and then Fiebings medium brown antique, then some Fiebings medium dye. The results were not quite the same as the picture. The edges are dark brown and/or black dye. That's not the problem. I can do that. It's the nice light highlights on the pedals and leaves that have been obviously resisted with something and I can't seem to replicate this.

Anybody care to suggest a solution? What will resist dye?? I tried saddle lac sprayed on spots and then dyed. Maybe I didn't wait long enough for it to dry, because my results were inconsitent. Oil dye definitely went right through resolene like it wasn't even there. Regular leather dye seemed to be resisted better but not good enough.

Also, my color does not match using medium browns. I get more of a redish color. It might be the lighting of the picture, of course, but I would like to match it as it appears.

Any ideas will be appreciated. Thanks.

Try resisting with Bee Natural's Sheridan Resist and Finish. Also, when you did your resist with resolene, did you put on two coats?

[Go2Tex]

Yeah, 2 coats did help somewhat. Letting it dry real good helps too, of course, but takes a lot of time. Still doesn't resist dye very well. It works great against antique paste but then that doesn't give me the overall colorization I'm looking for. Could be I just need to use antique and let it set longer. But, then antique isn't really color fast.

So, the problem is essentially 2 parts. First, I need to match the color and secondly, I need a resist/dye combination to achieve the stark highlight effect.

Edited January 3, 2009 by Go2Tex

[Crystal]

How about working backwards? Maybe try resist and remove. I look at that and it looks like the high parts of the design are worn or rubbed. Try the antique and then go over with a deglazer or something like that. If you want to hit just the high parts of the design, back your deglazer rag with a sanding block or something with a flat surface and rub over. That would keep the remover out of the recessed parts of the design.

I've also noticed the red tone to most browns. I did a little experiement one time and was able to cut the red tone in brown dye by adding blue dye. Not too much or you end up with purple. :-) Somewhere here, at some time, someone mentioned a brown dye that was a true brown without the red tones...I just can't remember who, where or when.

Just some thoughts-

Crystal

[Go2Tex]

Thanks Crystal. Yeah, I was just thinking about how Tandy antique actually seems to color the acrylic resist. I was thinking about then trying to remove the acrylic to expose the highlights without then having the color bleed all over it again. That's the hard part.

I was thinging of trying a hint of black dye to the brown. It would sure darken it.

[Crystal]

Thanks Crystal. Yeah, I was just thinking about how Tandy antique actually seems to color the acrylic resist. I was thinking about then trying to remove the acrylic to expose the highlights without then having the color bleed all over it again. That's the hard part.

I was thinging of trying a hint of black dye to the brown. It would sure darken it.

This is the thread where the brown dye is mentioned.

http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?s...amp;#entry77291

For some reason I am not sure just adding black will work. Give it a try though. Let us know how that turns out! I just had an interesting go with Tan gel antique. I put probably 4 coats of resist on top of white and I still ended up with yellow.... :-) Isn't this fun??

Crystal

[rdb]

Hi-lite over a resist would also be a good suggestion. I get a similar effect, and a lot more control than Antiquing. Glo-Getter also works similarly, but will darken the undyed leather more.

For the reverse of this effect I can have a light background with darker high spots by doing this:

Here's what I do on my belts...

First I load a cloth up with the full strength darker dye. Rub off most excess on cardboard. Then a long light rub onto the surface, continuing until everything (high spots) is covered evenly.

Then I mix neatsfoot oil with the dark color. You can mix it light at first, then on a sample test it. Make it darker as you prefer. I go over the whole project with the oil mix. depending on the strength of the mix, I get a light color background with just a touch of the primary color.

[Go2Tex]

Hi-lite over a resist would also be a good suggestion. I get a similar effect, and a lot more control than Antiquing. Glo-Getter also works similarly, but will darken the undyed leather more.

For the reverse of this effect I can have a light background with darker high spots by doing this:

Here's what I do on my belts...

First I load a cloth up with the full strength darker dye. Rub off most excess on cardboard. Then a long light rub onto the surface, continuing until everything (high spots) is covered evenly.

Then I mix neatsfoot oil with the dark color. You can mix it light at first, then on a sample test it. Make it darker as you prefer. I go over the whole project with the oil mix. depending on the strength of the mix, I get a light color background with just a touch of the primary color.

I've seen the Hi-lite product, but don't recall Glo-getter. Is this a Tandy product or Fiebings, or what?

So far I still have not found the perfect mix here. I need a very strong resist that will resist a dark, color fast dye. Sometimes Resolene works, sometimes not. I tried using deglazer to remove the colored resolene and that seemed to be the answer, but then I messed up one sample project this way and ended up with solid dark color, no highlights. I think as I rubbed off the resolene with the deglazer on a rag, the dye was transfered. I didn't wait long enough for the dye to dry.

Anyhow, this can't be a complex process if I'm going to apply it to a large project like a saddle. It must be simple, quick and consistent and uniform.

[tashabear]

I've seen the Hi-lite product, but don't recall Glo-getter. Is this a Tandy product or Fiebings, or what?

Apparently it's a Fiebings thing.

http://leprevo.co.uk/photos/glo_getter.html

[Go2Tex]

So, here is my best result so far. 3 applications of Resolene, the last coat was carefully painted on the areas I wanted the lightest color. Then, dried it for several hours. Then dyed with a concoction of Fiebings medium dye, (alcohol base), black and some green. That gave me the dark brown I needed since I didn't have any on hand. A quick wipe with a paper towel to remove most of the dye from the resisted areas, but not enough to rub off the resist and make it streak.

Ok, once dry, I hit the highlights with some deglazer to try and lighten it up a bit and smooth out the finish, since it had gotten blotchy in spots. I let it sit overnight. This morning I rubbed in some dark brown antique paste to give it a mellow finish, buffed it up with a wool pad and, Viola'! ...... still not exactly what I wanted but getting there.

[Greybeard]

Hmmm, What if you Died the back ground (Black or a Dark Brown) first (hand paint) then used an antique and rubbed off the high points? Just throwing Ideas at ya

Edited February 4, 2009 by Greybeard

[greg gomersall]

Why not just phone Rick Bean and ask him what process he used being's its his saddle you are using for an example? Greg

[D.A. Kabatoff]

I'd agree with Greg; Rick's an approachable guy and I'm sure he'd help you out. Keep in mind that the photo you are looking at has been enhanced and the color it shows may not be the actual color of the saddle. The original photo is on the National Cowboy Museum's website and in the TCAA catalog... it's so dark you almost can't see any detail in the saddle. I lightened it up on my computer and got the same resut as the photo you posted.

Darc

[Go2Tex]

Thanks to all for the help with this. I had looked around TCAA website before, but must have missed this one. Probably an old link. Anyhow, I didn't know who had made it until now. So, yeah, that would be a great idea to just ask him. Darc, you are right about the photo, as is true with most photos, it's hard to judge the real thing by looking at a pic. I think I have a handle on the process now though, and will see what I can come up with. I'm not really trying to reproduce it exactly, but just get a bit more contrast on my highlights using the right combination of dye to resist. I found an old thread on the forum that mentioned latex liquid masking stuff. Maybe......

So, here's a question.... would airbrushing acrylic paint or stain hold up to normal use on a saddle? I've never tried the stuff, so don't know.

[Go2Tex]

So, after many attempts I finally figured out what was going wrong. I wasn't giving the resist time to cure before attempting the dye. It must be allowed to cure over night and at least 2 coats works best. DUH. Well, I guess I knew that already, but I was in a dang hurry.

But, at least it works fairly consistently and predictably enough to try a larger project to test the results. Now, the pic here is a pair of spur straps. I used my concoction of medium brown, green and black to make the dark brown and after completely, emphasis on "completely", over a couple of coats of Resolene. The dye is applied quickly and then the excess on the resist is imediately lightly wiped off being careful not to rub with a paper towel.

Once the dye is completely dry, (also an important factor), use deglazer to remove some more dyed resist from the highlighted area. Apply a third coat of resist, since the deglazer might have removed it, and when dry, apply dark brown antique, rub in with wool pad and wipe off excess. Clean up with moist paper towel or sponge. Viola'!

[Go2Tex]

So, I finally received the black antique and acrylic copper paint. This picture frame I pounded out just for this experiment, dyed dark brown, then applied copper paint with a sponge, just as I would apply a resist, just hitting the high points. I let it dry for a while and tried the black acrylic antique. It pretty much covered the copper. It dries real fast and once dry, it don't come off. So, I reapplied the copper as before and this is the results.

[tashabear]

So, I finally received the black antique and acrylic copper paint. This picture frame I pounded out just for this experiment, dyed dark brown, then applied copper paint with a sponge, just as I would apply a resist, just hitting the high points. I let it dry for a while and tried the black acrylic antique. It pretty much covered the copper. It dries real fast and once dry, it don't come off. So, I reapplied the copper as before and this is the results.

Oh, I love the copper paint over the black! I'm going to have to give that a whirl one of these days.

[flathat4life]

So, I finally received the black antique and acrylic copper paint. This picture frame I pounded out just for this experiment, dyed dark brown, then applied copper paint with a sponge, just as I would apply a resist, just hitting the high points. I let it dry for a while and tried the black acrylic antique. It pretty much covered the copper. It dries real fast and once dry, it don't come off. So, I reapplied the copper as before and this is the results.

Not Bad!... im kinda a natural color sort of guy but that looks pretty good.. i realy like how the copper ended up on the antique brown..... nice choice of picture to =)

Jed

[wintermte]

So, I finally received the black antique and acrylic copper paint. This picture frame I pounded out just for this experiment, dyed dark brown, then applied copper paint with a sponge, just as I would apply a resist, just hitting the high points. I let it dry for a while and tried the black acrylic antique. It pretty much covered the copper. It dries real fast and once dry, it don't come off. So, I reapplied the copper as before and this is the results.

Do you need to apply a sheen or neatsfoot oil over the entire project then to protect the copper? I love these colors and am going to try this for a sissy bar bag, so I want to be sure the copper paint will hold up to the elements.

Not to ask a stupid question, but I've never used a resist before. You said you applied the copper paint like you would apply a resist. How do you apply a resist?

Thanks,

Dan

[Go2Tex]

Do you need to apply a sheen or neatsfoot oil over the entire project then to protect the copper? I love these colors and am going to try this for a sissy bar bag, so I want to be sure the copper paint will hold up to the elements.

Not to ask a stupid question, but I've never used a resist before. You said you applied the copper paint like you would apply a resist. How do you apply a resist?

Thanks,

Dan

The copper is acrylic and is supposed to be pretty tough, flexible, won't rub off, etc. Same with the acrylic antique. Now, it will come off with lacquor thinner, deglazer, probably other solvents, like you might pick up off the road if it was exposed on the back of a bike. So, maybe you might want to spray it with saddle lac or something like that.

Resist is applied with a soft cloth or damp sponge that is kept flat so that you just hit the high points of the carving or stamping. You want the antique to get down into the nooks and crannies, background, cuts, so you don't want the resist to get down in there. Or, you could use a brush and carefully paint the copper on the areas you want it on. It's hard, I found to keep from getting too much copper, then you have to go back and cover it with black again.

The copper and black looks good, but you should also try bronze and black, especially with brass hardware. Sweet....

[hidepounder]

Brent,

I wish you had a close up photo of the saddle...it looks to me like NeatLac was applied with a brush to create the highlights and the rest of the saddle was antiqued without a resist. I used to do that years ago...haven't seen it done in some time (except on a few belts).

Bob

[wintermte]

The copper is acrylic and is supposed to be pretty tough, flexible, won't rub off, etc. Same with the acrylic antique. Now, it will come off with lacquor thinner, deglazer, probably other solvents, like you might pick up off the road if it was exposed on the back of a bike. So, maybe you might want to spray it with saddle lac or something like that.

Resist is applied with a soft cloth or damp sponge that is kept flat so that you just hit the high points of the carving or stamping. You want the antique to get down into the nooks and crannies, background, cuts, so you don't want the resist to get down in there. Or, you could use a brush and carefully paint the copper on the areas you want it on. It's hard, I found to keep from getting too much copper, then you have to go back and cover it with black again.

The copper and black looks good, but you should also try bronze and black, especially with brass hardware. Sweet....

Thanks for the information, I really appreciate it. What kind/brand is the copper paint? I don't see it mentioned in the thread anywhere.

[Go2Tex]

Thanks for the information, I really appreciate it. What kind/brand is the copper paint? I don't see it mentioned in the thread anywhere.

Angelus is the brand. Here is their website: http://www.angelusshoepolish.com/

[Go2Tex]

Brent,

I wish you had a close up photo of the saddle...it looks to me like NeatLac was applied with a brush to create the highlights and the rest of the saddle was antiqued without a resist. I used to do that years ago...haven't seen it done in some time (except on a few belts).

Bob

Yeah, possibly. I tried that too. Didn't really like the way it looked. It looked painted on and the antique on bare leather can look terrible. Bean's saddle looks like copper paint to me, the way it shines, but you could be right. Might just be the lighting of the photo reflecting off the finish. Pretty hard to get that solid of black color with antigue alone, though. There is some black dye or paint on the flower centers.

[wintermte]

Angelus is the brand. Here is their website: http://www.angelusshoepolish.com/

Thanks again!