A bitter experience - rant

[Ian]

I had an experience last week that has left me with a very bitter taste in my mouth. Like most resentments, it was my fault, never-the-less....

I had a guy call up asking if I could make him a pair of heavy leather riding pants. I had previously redone his motorcycle seat and saddlebags, so I didn't ask for a deposit and explained I couldn't even give him an estimate until i knew how much leather they would take. His reply was bascially that he wanted the best leather available, minimal seams, etc, whatever the cost.

Well, the pants turned out pretty awesome, if I say so myself, but used an amazing amount of leather and quite a few hours of my time.

When he came to pick them up, his exact words were "if they are going to be more than $...., then i hope they fit you" His offered amount just covered the materials. looking back, I wish I had said "no dice, i'll give them to the Salvation Army before I give my work away" But, I wanted to at least recoup my materials, so I gave in. Now, I feel like an idiot for the whole way I handled the situation. I really suck at business!!!!!

[HorsehairBraider]

Wow - those are *really* nice! Fabulous!

Don't beat yourself up, live and learn. I have learned... I *ALWAYS* charge the full amount, up front. If people are not willing to fork over the money, I'd just as soon spend my time doing what I want to do. However, that lesson was very hard to learn and it was difficult to get it through my thick skull! Learn from my mistakes.

In a case like that, I quote a VERY high price, just trying to figure twice as much material as I think, and then adding more on "just in case". If they don't want to pay, fine. They can live without whatever it is.

You don't see them do that at the store. They don't go in and tell the guy they want that big screen TV, and they will only pay $50.00. The guy would just laugh in their face!

We had a lady come in one time, who told my friend (who was helping me sell that day) - "Not everyone can afford to pay $___ for that!" And my friend said, "We don't sell to just anyone. We sell to a very select group of people."

Anyway, sorry that happened, but just don't let someone do that to you again! Charge the money up front. If they actually want whatever it is, they'll pay.

[tonyc1]

Ian, what type and make of machine are you using for this type of work?

Tony.

[CitizenKate]

Ian, I got a similar lesson a couple of years back. I floated the down payment and ended up getting stiffed for half the selling price. I agree with the point Horsehairbraider makes: deal consistently and ask everyone to make a payment up-front to cover the expenses.

But that being said, your work is phenomenal and worth every penny.

Kate

[Kustom]

Ian, thanks for posting. It will help me not to make the same mistake. Beause if I had done work for him before I would have done the same thing you did.

[Todd]

Hey Buddy

I had a similar experience with a saddle I made with a rose pattern which would be hard to resell. The woman told me she couldn't afford the originally agreed upon price and offered much less. I was really tempted to take the cash and chalk it up to a lesson learned but got stubborn and vowed to ride the saddle myself (I hate roses on saddles) before I would let someone fleece me like that. I said no and she wound up coming back a week later with the whole amount. Now I don't do anything without full material costs and 50% labor down.

[Bree]

Wow - those are *really* nice! Fabulous!Don't beat yourself up, live and learn. I have learned... I *ALWAYS* charge the full amount, up front. If people are not willing to fork over the money, I'd just as soon spend my time doing what I want to do. However, that lesson was very hard to learn and it was difficult to get it through my thick skull! Learn from my mistakes. In a case like that, I quote a VERY high price, just trying to figure twice as much material as I think, and then adding more on "just in case". If they don't want to pay, fine. They can live without whatever it is. You don't see them do that at the store. They don't go in and tell the guy they want that big screen TV, and they will only pay $50.00. The guy would just laugh in their face! We had a lady come in one time, who told my friend (who was helping me sell that day) - "Not everyone can afford to pay $___ for that!" And my friend said, "We don't sell to just anyone. We sell to a very select group of people." Anyway, sorry that happened, but just don't let someone do that to you again! Charge the money up front. If they actually want whatever it is, they'll pay.

+1 We are all small businesses. We can't absorb thousands of dollars in losses like large corporations can. When we lose, the mortgage doesn't get paid or somone goes hungry.I am with you 100%. I want all the money up front. I take 0% risk and the customer takes 100% risk. If they want to get a better deal elsewhere, fine go right ahead. If they want MY work, then they pay just like they do at McDonald's... all the cash before they get the burger.I have personally lost over $50,000 doing it the other way with 1/2 down and 1/2 on delivery. Somebody always finds a way to sucker me into violating the basic rule of small business sales... Never ever let the customer have both the goods and the money at the same time. And when you trot on down to small claims court, you score an easy win and then you have a nice judgement and no money. Good luck collecting.One guy was slicker than spit. He conned me into not collecting $5,000 at the proper time by putting up the title to his Mercedes. That turned out to be utterly worthless and I was out $5k. He was gone with the work, the money, and the Mercedes.Thieves are much better at lying and gaining trust than I am at spotting lies or distrusting them. So the only way I found to stop my bleeding was through PROCESS. I set up a strict process for new work and before the work begins, all the money is collected. If it is a lot of money, I am happy to have my banker or attorney hold it in escrow. But once that contract is signed, the money must be paid. Any other way involves risk of loss to me which I am not willing accept.

Ian...

Put those beautiful leather pants up on EBay and you should be able to get your price.Terrific work.

Edited January 5, 2009 by Bree

[Ian]

Ian, what type and make of machine are you using for this type of work?

Tony.

Tony, that was sewn on my awesome old Consew 206RB. The point where the seams intersect on the back yoke is 9 layers of 3oz leather - definitely past the limit, but it did make it through.

[rdb]

Ian, You're about a good a business man as I am...lol. We charge too little, we trust too many people, and we always worry about whether or not the things we made are good enough to charge the full amount.

I hardly ever take a down payment on things less than hundred, minimal amounts on more than that. For the most part, everything works out, but occasionally the same thing happens to me. I beat myself up, swear a blue streak that reaches the end of the cosmos, settle down, have a beer, then go right back to doing the same thing...sheesh.

But guess what, the "sucker" reputation doesn't stick. "Gee, He's a good guy.", does. And the good customers more than make up for the bad.

With your talent, they should be beating down the doors to give you all their money. Just make sure you get enough money from them to replace that door...lol

[Luke Hatley]

'' BEEN THERE DONE THAT.. WONT DO IT AGAIN" i'v learned my lesson.

if they wont me to do the work they will pay my honest and fair prices

.............up front......

right now i am holding two fork bags , for a (use to be ) close friend.

he wanted me to make these for christmas presents........(now due to the

economy) he says he dont have the $$$$$ to pay me.

like i say"you will reap what you sow"

Edited January 5, 2009 by Luke Hatley

[mulefool]

We've probably all experienced something like that at one time or another. The good news is you won't make that mistake again. Especially in this economy we all need to be scrupulous about getting our deposits. People order when they feel flush, but then when the item is ready "Sorry, don't have the money!". Sorry about your deal, but thanks for posting it, it reminds us all to careful. BTW, if it was a good repeat customer, I probably would have made the same mistake. Plus those are really a nice pair of pants.

[tonyc1]

Tony, that was sewn on my awesome old Consew 206RB. The point where the seams intersect on the back yoke is 9 layers of 3oz leather - definitely past the limit, but it did make it through.

Good job, Ian. Thanks.

Tony.

[randyandclaudia]

Hey Ian,

A great friend of mine once told me his formula for charging for his work. I've stuck to it from that moment forward and it works. Figure out what you would do the project for if you really needed the money (pretend that you don't). . . double it and add $25.00. Especially when you are doing custom or one offs. Works everytime. Your work is awesome . . . make them pay for it. I know an incredible bootmaker who doubled her prices and all of a sudden her orders shot through the roof! Keep on keepin' on . . . nice pants!

[mulefool]

You know what irks me? When I give a price quote through gritted teeth thinking "Man, this is EXPENSIVE" and the customer says, "Oh, I thought it would be alot more". That's when you know you've probably underbid. Chris

[JohnBarton]

This is one of the worst experiences a craftsman can have happen to them and I believe it's happened to most of us. I had several cue cases for years that had customer's names embroidered on them where I didn't take a deposit and they never picked up the cases. I kept them around to remind me.Now I don't take deposits on items that I know I can move as soon as I let people know I have one for sale. Luckily I have a bit of a waiting list of clients who want to be informed whenever I happen to have an extra cue case for sale.Anything personalized or special-made though requires a full, non-refundable payment in advance. If a customer is not happy with the work I will do it again and again until I get it right but they don't get any money back once I start working on their special thing.I learned long ago that those who won't pay in advance are not serious about acquiring the piece. Serious buyers want to pay you extra so you'll start right now.So that's how I handle it. Hope that this helps you.One thing that can soften the blow for what the customer did you to is to think of the amount you lost as marketing money. I just look at it as an investment and the jerk of a customer as a charity case because he obviously needs the money more than me if he is willing to pretty much steal my time.

You know what irks me? When I give a price quote through gritted teeth thinking "Man, this is EXPENSIVE" and the customer says, "Oh, I thought it would be alot more". That's when you know you've probably underbid. Chris

I know that feeling. :-)What I do is just put my price on it and resolve to be happy with it. The best thing in the world is when they feel like the piece is worth more than what they were quoted.That just equals repeat business and referrals.

[Hennessy]

We've probably all experienced something like that at one time or another. The good news is you won't make that mistake again. Especially in this economy we all need to be scrupulous about getting our deposits. People order when they feel flush, but then when the item is ready "Sorry, don't have the money!". Sorry about your deal, but thanks for posting it, it reminds us all to careful. BTW, if it was a good repeat customer, I probably would have made the same mistake. Plus those are really a nice pair of pants.

this is a learning curve,keep curving but try your best to straighten er up eh.taking checks is another tester,i found my business actually increased when i started taking credit cards no problems either,allways get a deposit 30percent or more,half is better, no refund,figure a pick up time frame also.be firm but courteous. pete