Why aren't there more tree makers?

[grumpyguy]

I have pondered this myself for some time. Hidecrafter hit the nail squarely on the head so I'll not repeat his points.

I have decided to try my hand at tree making and launch my own project. In my view the traditional trees are the way I will go. No one has proven to me yet there is another superior product out there. (Then again maybe that shows my own stubbornness.) I have repaired saddles for friends and counter parts, rebuilt saddles of my own and made custom tack items. I also have ridden a substantial amount on a variety of horses and spent days in the saddle. I know what fits and what is going to cause trouble. (Both for my horses and myself.)

Awhile back I got the itch to make up a saddle and began looking for a tree. I decided against a "factory tree" and found the custom makers were busy taking care of thier already established clients and did not want to take time to just build a tree for a newaccount that was not proven. (As anyone with good sense and a backlog of orders would do.) They of course directed me to a number of saddle makers (their clients) who politely tried to talk me into ordering a saddle from them and not try it myself.

I began to consider making trees myself and have spent time studying a few saddles, seeing how the trees were made.

I then began to notice some saddle makers were making trees for themselves. I see the advantage in maintaining control of the entire saddle building operation. This gives the maker control in making trees for his specs and application, thus making sure his clients will be satisfied with an above average product. (Hopefully or perhaps at least in the maker and more importantly the customers minds.)

All of this being said, I have run into a major snag in I have not located a source for the bull hide. The local processor here can't be a reliable supply and he sells all of his hides to a buyer for a tannery. If someone out there knows where I can get the frozen bull hides I would be greatful for the information. If I can get the materials I believe I could produce a satifactory tree. Hopefully shortly I'll be able to post the results of my efforts here, soon. (Might have been simpler to just holler, "HELP, WHERE CAN I GET BULL HIDE FOR MY TREES!" but I could not help myself.)

Rod and Denise,

I would be intersted in information on your "small package" if they are still being offered.

Edited April 22, 2008 by grumpyguy

[Rod and Denise Nikkel]

Grumpyguy,

Most tree makers we know get their rawhide from Hereford ByProducts in Hereford Texas. The last phone number we had for them was 806-369-0951. My understanding is that "bullhide" is just a designation for the thickest hide you can get and says nothing about the age or sex of the animal used. And all of it is split. To get a thicker hide you need to make your own, which a number of tree makers, ourselves included, do. Then you know you are getting true BULL hide. But the prebought stuff is also very commonly used.

For straight hides, not processed... Sorry, can't help you. We have the luxury (?) of a place about 95 minutes from here that is medium sized. They kill about 50 animals a week - big enough that we can often, but not always, get what we need, but small enough to be willing to keep them separate for us. We are nice to them because without them we would be up the creek, but I think they get well paid for the hides compared to what they get from the tannery too.

By the way, we have finally managed to get our backlog to a handleable level so are again taking on new customers.

Edited October 25, 2008 by Denise

[David Genadek]

I have pondered this myself for some time. Hidecrafter hit the nail squarely on the head so I'll not repeat his points.

I have decided to try my hand at tree making and launch my own project. In my view the traditional trees are the way I will go. No one has proven to me yet there is another superior product out there. (Then again maybe that shows my own stubbornness.) I have repaired saddles for friends and counter parts, rebuilt saddles of my own and made custom tack items. I also have ridden a substantial amount on a variety of horses and spent days in the saddle. I know what fits and what is going to cause trouble. (Both for my horses and myself.)

Awhile back I got the itch to make up a saddle and began looking for a tree. I decided against a "factory tree" and found the custom makers were busy taking care of thier already established clients and did not want to take time to just build a tree for a newaccount that was not proven. (As anyone with good sense and a backlog of orders would do.) They of course directed me to a number of saddle makers (their clients) who politely tried to talk me into ordering a saddle from them and not try it myself.

I began to consider making trees myself and have spent time studying a few saddles, seeing how the trees were made.

I then began to notice some saddle makers were making trees for themselves. I see the advantage in maintaining control of the entire saddle building operation. This gives the maker control in making trees for his specs and application, thus making sure his clients will be satisfied with an above average product. (Hopefully or perhaps at least in the maker and more importantly the customers minds.)

All of this being said, I have run into a major snag in I have not located a source for the bull hide. The local processor here can't be a reliable supply and he sells all of his hides to a buyer for a tannery. If someone out there knows where I can get the frozen bull hides I would be greatful for the information. If I can get the materials I believe I could produce a satifactory tree. Hopefully shortly I'll be able to post the results of my efforts here, soon. (Might have been simpler to just holler, "HELP, WHERE CAN I GET BULL HIDE FOR MY TREES!" but I could not help myself.)

Rod and Denise,

I would be intersted in information on your "small package" if they are still being offered.

Formerly Herford by Products

Tejas Industries

PO Box 2257

Hereford TX 79045-2257

866 660 2830 toll fre

806 350 5540

confer@tejasindustries.com

David Genadek

[grumpyguy]

Thanks, David.

Grumpy

[mulefool]

We would like to make our own pack saddle trees. We do Assemble our own Deckers. but we have the bars cut by Sonny Felkins and we get our arches cast from Herb Bork. We would like to ability to cut our own bars and also to make Sawbuck trees. I'm not that happy with what I am able to get. We do dress them up a bit after we get them, but we'd like a little better shape to the bars and just a nicer tree. It's been hard getting the time to do the research on putting together a little tree shop.

[grumpyguy]

Mulefool,

the wooden saw bucks are usually softwood bars and oak cross pieces. Packers I know use pine or fir for the bars around here when they repair thier old trees. (I have heard of Cottonwood and Alder also used, both are classified as "hardwood" but are very soft as hardwoods go.) The cross pieces are white oak because of it's resistance to weather and moisture changes. (Same reason boat builders use white oak over the more common red oak on the market.) I don't know if this helps you any.

The dimention of the sawbuck lumber is usually 1 1/2" or 1 3/4" stock. When fitted together there are a front and a rear sawbuck. The rear go on as they are. The front sawbuck must be cut out to clear for the withers and padding. I don't off hand know the angle that is used. It looks like 90 degrees or something close. The real kicker will be the angle at which you attach the bars. I suggest checking with Difani's Backcountry or Pack Shop, both are in Idaho and both have great web sites. Both shops indicate they manufacture thier own equipment which they sell. I found them by searhing in Google under "pack saddle."

I like the deckers better because if I have to fit a new or different animal all I have to do is use a heating tip on a welding rig to heat and bend the arches to get the bars to fit properly. (Plumbers torch and mapp gas will work if the weather is not too cold and your not out in the wind but is not quite hot enough to get nice even bends.) Some of the packers around here will not even give thought to deckers because they traditionally have always used the sawbucks.

Best of luck,

Grumpyguy

[mulefool]

Thanks grumpy. Our Decker bars are cut from cottonwood. I like it cause it's light and fibrous. Most customers that have any preference on wood at all want the cottonwood. I believe the old Forest Service specs are cottonwood.

The sawbucks we presently get are pine with oak crosses.

We're headed down the the packing clinic in Klamath Falls this coming weekend. Larry Difani always has a booth one down from us. We always have a nice time chatting with him. I noticed last year he appeared to be making his own sawbuck trees.

I prefer a Decker, too. but we sell gear all over and as you know some areas are Sawbuck country.

Sounds like you're pretty knowledgeable on pack saddles. Here's our website if you'd like to see what we do. www.horseandmulegear.com

[grumpyguy]

Mulefool,

Nice site, turnsout I've seen your advertisements in several horse magazines and read articals from some of your customers over the years. You make nice gear! The Nikkels should be able to give you some advise on tree making. Great thing about packsaddle bars is the bottom is the side you really must fit and the rest is subject to your preferences. Really like the artwork too!

Grumpy

[jennifer]

Anyone know someone who could teach the craft near San Diego?

[Severe]

Really good stuff in this thread.

I started building trees under my dads instruction, he learned from Walt Youngman at Hamleys. After shaping wood for three years I started learning the rawhide end under Dan Luft ( he was the rawhider for Hamleys for years) I would work the first part of the week in the wood then take the trees in and Dan & I would start rawhiding.

It was great to learn under a couple guys that had the experence to show me the little tricks that make life easyer. I in turn helped my brother monty learn to rawhide and also helped Warren Wright for a short time get some hands on in the hide room.

After about six years we had a saddlemaker retire upstairs and my uncle started teaching me to build saddles. I started building assn. treesand when I had about 12 built up I'd go upstairs and start putting leather on. I was pretty fortunate to learn both trades from guys who were considered experts.

This is all leading up to one thought that I've had for some time. Learng both trades has helped me do both jobs better. When I start a tree now , I know pretty much what I want the saddle to be and I shape the top of the tree to help me in that reguard, when the leather go's on it lets me get to where I want to be.

Down side? you can't fool the saddlemaker, or lay the blame on the treemaker.

If you only do one, I'd still advise every treemaker to build a saddle, and every saddlemaker to build a tree. RS