Members David Genadek Posted March 29, 2007 Members Report Posted March 29, 2007 Thank you! This is very helpful. The person that will be using this set up hates computers so I need to make everything as simple as possible. Besides I only have a vague idea how to set up a network. So I wanted something that is easy to set up that she can work on just like it is her regular computer. If she had to start picking drives to save files to it would cause a lot of frustration. I didn't consider needing special cable to bury. I installed power to the barn so I ran a special conduit the whole way for the cable. Will that take care of any special needs for the cable? I did wireless to my shop which is about a 100 ft from the router but then installed a cable which I have better luck with. Part of my problem is that the shop and the barn are lower than the house where the router is. The buildings are metel too which didn't help matters much. I didn't invest in the better antenne's though because with all things considered it seemed cheaper to just run the cable. I buy most of my stuff from Tiger Direct. On the Cat 6 do you have to change the order of the wires when you put the ends on or is that the same as the Cat 5? I have a netgear router that I can do cables or go wireless with. I like the wireless in the house because we almost always have someone staying with us and that gives them freedom with thier laptops. One day I will get these con founded machines working well enough that I can do leather work again. Sigh, I shouldn't complain because they allow me to live in the sticks and sell all over the world but boy have I wasted a lot of time and money on getting them functional. Thats why we all need to charge more for our leather work so we can afford to hire computer geeks to come help us. David Genadek Quote
Moderator Art Posted March 29, 2007 Moderator Report Posted March 29, 2007 Hi David, If you are running at gigabit speeds you will need to have the manufactured ends, however if you are just running 100BaseT then you can get by putting them on yourself. Best way is to terminate in a receptacle on each end and use patch cables to run to the router/switch. There are 4 wires used, they go to pins 1, 2, 3, and 6; same colors on each end. Just keep the cable dry and leave a way for condensation to get out. Art Thank you! This is very helpful. The person that will be using this set up hates computers so I need to make everything as simple as possible. Besides I only have a vague idea how to set up a network. So I wanted something that is easy to set up that she can work on just like it is her regular computer. If she had to start picking drives to save files to it would cause a lot of frustration. I didn't consider needing special cable to bury. I installed power to the barn so I ran a special conduit the whole way for the cable. Will that take care of any special needs for the cable? I did wireless to my shop which is about a 100 ft from the router but then installed a cable which I have better luck with. Part of my problem is that the shop and the barn are lower than the house where the router is. The buildings are metel too which didn't help matters much. I didn't invest in the better antenne's though because with all things considered it seemed cheaper to just run the cable. I buy most of my stuff from Tiger Direct. On the Cat 6 do you have to change the order of the wires when you put the ends on or is that the same as the Cat 5? I have a netgear router that I can do cables or go wireless with. I like the wireless in the house because we almost always have someone staying with us and that gives them freedom with thier laptops. One day I will get these con founded machines working well enough that I can do leather work again. Sigh, I shouldn't complain because they allow me to live in the sticks and sell all over the world but boy have I wasted a lot of time and money on getting them functional. Thats why we all need to charge more for our leather work so we can afford to hire computer geeks to come help us. David Genadek Quote For heaven's sakes pilgrim, make yourself a strop!
Members dsenette Posted March 30, 2007 Author Members Report Posted March 30, 2007 If you are running at gigabit speeds you will need to have the manufactured ends, however if you are just running 100BaseT then you can get by putting them on yourself. Best way is to terminate in a receptacle on each end and use patch cables to run to the router/switch. There are 4 wires used, they go to pins 1, 2, 3, and 6; same colors on each end.. well...gigabit or 10/100 or any of that has absolutely no bearing on the termination of the cables...they're all punched the exact same way (hell...doesn't matter how they're punched as long as the ends match) for the distances you're mentioning...even with range extenders the connection will be iffy at best...and frankly...i can't stand wireless...it's more trouble than it's worth right now....any router or wireless NIC that's a draft N router/card is just that...a DRAFT of the protocol...i.e. it's not finished...i don't trust them...it's not that they don't work...but not ONE manufacturer has issued a guarantee to replace or modify hardware if the protocol changes by the time it's finished...not worth it... if you've got conduit burried already then running CAT through the conduit will be fine....even if there's a little moisture intrusion...as long as the ends of the cable don't get wet you're fine Cat 6 is Gigabit and Cat 5 in 100mbit, 10 times the difference but suseptable to the weakest link. while it's technically true that CAT6 was developed at about the same time gigabit became popular...it's not specifically designed for it...you can run gigabit pefectly fine on CAT5 or CAT5E...as long as there's not too much EMI...and you can run 10/100 on CAT6....the cable doesn't controll the speed...just helps with interferance...(not arguing...just disambiguation) Quote "We are all blind men touching an elephant. Each with a different view. It's only when we compare our experiences that we can truly know the complete picture" ~ Buddhist proverb
Moderator Art Posted March 30, 2007 Moderator Report Posted March 30, 2007 Well, Sorry I stepped into your terrirory being as I only have 37+ years in the computer business. What a load of BS. Art well...gigabit or 10/100 or any of that has absolutely no bearing on the termination of the cables...they're all punched the exact same way (hell...doesn't matter how they're punched as long as the ends match)for the distances you're mentioning...even with range extenders the connection will be iffy at best...and frankly...i can't stand wireless...it's more trouble than it's worth right now....any router or wireless NIC that's a draft N router/card is just that...a DRAFT of the protocol...i.e. it's not finished...i don't trust them...it's not that they don't work...but not ONE manufacturer has issued a guarantee to replace or modify hardware if the protocol changes by the time it's finished...not worth it... if you've got conduit burried already then running CAT through the conduit will be fine....even if there's a little moisture intrusion...as long as the ends of the cable don't get wet you're fine while it's technically true that CAT6 was developed at about the same time gigabit became popular...it's not specifically designed for it...you can run gigabit pefectly fine on CAT5 or CAT5E...as long as there's not too much EMI...and you can run 10/100 on CAT6....the cable doesn't controll the speed...just helps with interferance...(not arguing...just disambiguation) Quote For heaven's sakes pilgrim, make yourself a strop!
Members dsenette Posted March 30, 2007 Author Members Report Posted March 30, 2007 well...like i said...not posting that for an arguement...but...if you want to clarify some things for me...then that would be great...since your 37+ years in the industry might enlighten me...never know..learn something new every day right? what about gigabit traffic requires the RJ45 connector on the end of a CAT6 cable to be terminated by a manufacturer instead of being terminated in the normal fashion of placing the wires in the RJ45 plug and crimping it? while CAT6 has VAST advantages (especially when you're running gigabit) over CAT5 and 5E....what about the physical cable makes 5 or 5E unusable at gigabit speeds? what is the detriment to running 10/100 over 6? Quote "We are all blind men touching an elephant. Each with a different view. It's only when we compare our experiences that we can truly know the complete picture" ~ Buddhist proverb
Contributing Member wolvenstien Posted March 30, 2007 Contributing Member Report Posted March 30, 2007 I am not a moderator, but if I were, I would slap both your hands.... NO PISSING CONTESTS on the board.... the two of you being staff on the board should know better I will put a stop to this with the following FACTS: I do not have 30+ years in the computer industry, but I do however have a few years of installation experiance in both CATV/Satellite and networking (computer networks, POS, VOIP.... etc...) and I have used methods in both instances... I am not going to get into specifics... you are both correct in that what you stated is how you would do it if it were you, both will work in most situations, and both will not work in some situations... all depends on the situation. The situation stated above I personally would go either way, and I do not see a problem with either other than personal preferance and what I am willing to spend on installation costs and we arent going to get into that aspect of it... Now kiss and make up. Miike Quote "The miracle is not how two adults can create a child, the phenomenon is how quickly a child can create two adults." -- VYBE Her: Hit Me Him: Do you want me to use the knife? Her: No, When you hit with a knife, that's STABBING!
Members dsenette Posted March 30, 2007 Author Members Report Posted March 30, 2007 thanks for your concern wolvenstien..but i (can only speek for myself here) am not trying to initiate a pissing contest...while i do fancy myself to have a pretty large amount of knowledge with regards to this stuff (and networking in general)...i know for a fact that i don't know everything....if Art has knowlege that i don't...i'd like to have that knowledge...but i'd prefer for him to explain himself instead of just saying that everything i sad was BS and leaving it at that....that's all i'm looking for... Quote "We are all blind men touching an elephant. Each with a different view. It's only when we compare our experiences that we can truly know the complete picture" ~ Buddhist proverb
Contributing Member Regis Posted March 30, 2007 Contributing Member Report Posted March 30, 2007 (edited) Well,,,,, I've probably got more computer time than both of you put together but that much time does not help much in cat5 or cat6 specifications. We didn't get into widespread Cat5 until early-mid '90's. Error correction is so good now that you can have a pretty messy setup and it still works. BTW, When I started, cat 5 was a dream-size bull dozer with a huge diesel engine and had no business near a computer center. Regis Edited March 30, 2007 by Regis Quote God, Family, and Country (although liberals are attempting to destroy these in the USA)
Contributing Member wolvenstien Posted March 30, 2007 Contributing Member Report Posted March 30, 2007 Well,,,,, I've probably got more computer time than both of you put together but that much time does not help much in cat5 or cat6 specifications. We didn't get into widespread Cat5 until early-mid '90's. Error correction is so good now that you can have a pretty messy setup and it still works.BTW, When I started, cat 5 was a dream-size bull dozer with a huge diesel engine and had no business near a computer center. Regis LOL, I had me a cat5 when I was a kid.... it was sized down quite a bit... but I had one... I had a whole collection of Cat equipment... I bought my son a Quarry Dumper fro christmas, but it was all plastic and kind of made me mad that I could not find any that were metal like mine were... then about a month ago I go into a tool store here in town that I had never been to and only went to because Harbor Freight didnt have what I needed... when I was checking out, the check out girl asked if I has a catalog... No, this is my first time in the store... so she put this phone book looking catalog into my bag... I got to looking at it, they have a full line of Cat equipment and earth movers all in metal... and then some larger cat backhoes for the kids to sit on and actually dig with.... very cool... very expensive... most being average price of arount 30 to 35 each.... but I will start working on a collection for him like I once had.... dsenette From this side of the conversation, it looked exactly like how I described it... Having worked as admin and mod on several forums like this one (format, not topic), I see stuff like that all the time, and it is something that can get way out of control very fast, even if that is not what was ment to start, it ends up going wrong because of a few words that are taken wrong or whatever... I am not singling you out in this reply, just that Art has not responded yet, and for all I know, you two are talking via PM and everything is cool... My point is that this is not the place for anything that might be construed as bickering. If you feel that this needs to go farther, take it into PMs or ask for a phone numeber... talking on the phone leaves less chance of mis commumication and taking a word that is ment one way totally different than it was ment.... Quote "The miracle is not how two adults can create a child, the phenomenon is how quickly a child can create two adults." -- VYBE Her: Hit Me Him: Do you want me to use the knife? Her: No, When you hit with a knife, that's STABBING!
Members dsenette Posted April 1, 2007 Author Members Report Posted April 1, 2007 wovenstein...i don't meen any offence by this but... while i appreciate your bantor and the fact that you may have been a mod or admin at another site......you're not a mod or admin here...i believe that you don't need to question my tactics, or my tone...especially not in this thread.... if you'd like to find out why i'm an admin here...then you can ask johanna....if you'd like to see why she hasn't steped in here as the administrator of this site to challenge me as you are...you can do the same... other than that....i'd kindly ask you to take your nose into either your own...or someone elses business Quote "We are all blind men touching an elephant. Each with a different view. It's only when we compare our experiences that we can truly know the complete picture" ~ Buddhist proverb
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