Learning About Saddle Repairs

[CuttingHorse]

Hello all,

I’m the lurker of the forum, finally coming into the light to hopefully be more active.

I did have a question for everyone. I am interested in becoming a saddle fitter, which is kind of overwhelming to learn about since learning the profession is so underground, at least in the US. I posted a thread on a different forum for advice from other fitters, and have learned a lot. It’s also help clear up any confusion and give me a clearer picture.

Long story short, my current plan is to take classes at the North American Saddlery School(NASS), then receive my certification through the Society of Master Saddlers(SMS) in the UK. 

Something else I’m interested in is doing repairs. My area has one saddle fitter that stays overbooked. She also does minor repairs, but again, she stays too booked. It’s to my understanding that she has stopped doing repairs in the last few years due to the workload. So there’s not really anyone who does repairs locally. I know I will learn how to drop panels and replace flocking while learning how to fit, but I would like to be able to do other repairs such as billet replacement, knee pad replacement, seat replacement, etc.

Where would I learn to do repairs? Would that come from learning how to build a saddle? My current focus is English saddles, though I would be interested in learning either western or side saddle repairs also. I suspect doing all three would be stretching myself too thin, and that’s not something I want to do. 

Another question, I’m full of them sorry, but approximately how big of a workshop would you want to have for a saddle fitting/repair business? What are the bare bones tools that you would need? Ideally I would like to have my workshop on property with me when the time comes to build one, the way I’m not paying rent on a facility and can be home more, but I would hate to build a shop only to figure out that it wasn’t well designed or built big enough for what I need.

Thank you in advance, and sorry for all the questions! I’m trying to explore all my options and figure out what the best route to take would be. Any advice you can give would be greatly appreciated, along with any experience you would like to share.

Sorry if this is the wrong forum to put this in, it seemed like the best fit. Please move it if this is incorrect.

[fivewayswelshcobs]

To be honest you are looking at 2 different skills one being saddle fitting and the other being a saddler. You can learn to do flocking as a saddle fitter, the Society of Master Saddlers (UK) recommends saddle fitters if they wish to do this attend training and at some point this is likely to be compulsory if you want to be a member there are some flocking and doing repairs without this training that do not have sufficient skills and are creating problems. 

If you are more interested in working on saddles I would highly recommend training as a saddler so you know how and why saddles are made as they are and the best ways of repairing them, you can then train for saddle fitting and do the complete job. A good place to start is to contact George at uksaddlery.com

Many saddlery workshops are actually smaller than you would expect I started in half a single garage but now have half a shed about 25 feet by 14 feet but then I do harness, bridles and other leatherwork as well as saddles so have lots of leather and increasing amounts of machinery (it's addictive). 

Hope this helps

[CuttingHorse]

Thank you, this helps a lot!

I do feel as though I’m going two different directions with fitting and repair. It’s not helping my confusion at all.

You bring up a good point about there being fitters out there who do a shoddy job. Same goes for repairs. I’m trying to avoid that, as I want to be competent at what I do, not just good enough to do a passable job. I had previously looked into the County fitting course but opted against it, I found out it was a course to teach you how to sell County saddles, not how to fit. I don’t want to be a product pusher.

The NASS is affiliated with the SMS, which is awesome because it’s easier for me to take classes in the states. I could travel to the UK and will probably end up doing so for courses, but currently I am hesitant to do so due to all the ties I have in the states. I could definitely make it work for a few years if need be, but I wanted to keep that as a backup plan.

Do you think it would be possible to juggle both fitting and repairs? Or would I be better off choosing one or the other? I think I will learn fitting first, as the start up is easier on that, then start collecting tools and machinery to do repairs as I get built up, if I am able to do both at the same time.

I wills shoot George an email to get more info, thank you! I notice there is a class on building a saddle, have you had any experience with that?

That’s a decent sized workshop you have! Also a nice spread of equipment to work on. I would love to see pictures of your workshop and your leatherwork if you want to share.

Thank you again for all the info you have given me, you’ve given me a lot to think about and consider.

[fivewayswelshcobs]

I've not been on George's courses although I've been told he is a very good teacher by a friend of mine. I met him a few years ago at a couple of things but he is a very experienced saddler and saddle fitter and has rejoined SMS. I know George and other SMS members have run courses in the US including saddle fitting

My training was college based in Walsall, when I started I didn’t know whether to do lightgoods or saddlery but went with saddlery as have had horses for many years and was lucky enough to be close enough to Walsall to go to the college before it stopped the leather courses, but as I prefer bench work saddle fitting is a small part of my business but I know many saddlers manage both repairs and fitting as they can often alter the saddle on site without the need of returning to the workshop or only taking the more complicated repairs back. It is very possible to have part of the week fitting and the rest of the week workshop based. Saddle fitting is probably better paid than bench work especially repairs but then it involves a higher capital outlay for stock ie saddles.

My workshop sounds a good size until you fit in 3 sewing machines (2 busm no.6 one on treadle a 45k also on a treadle) ,a large splitter,a skiver, a large work bench (8'×4') 2 pallet racks for leather storage and numerous other bits for storing buckles, straps, tools etc. One day when I finish bringing in new machines it will finally be tidy and organised but until then I always seem to be moving stuff to find room for a new toy or trying to find space to put a customer's saddle rather than in the middle of the bench ! Problem is I keep adding stuff when I can afford it and as it comes up as most of my stuff is not new apart from some of the hand tools even the bench came from a garage sale, an engineer was selling up and had 2 benches one he wanted to keep the other cost me £50 . 

One day I will find time to post photo's.

 

[gmace99]

I do saddle repair courses. However I would recommend making a saddle. From there you may go into saddle making or repairs. If you do a repair course you will do a few repairs on the course. If you make a saddle you will understand hw to do a lot more types of repairs.

I have taught lots of people over the years some go on doing repairs some go into saddle making and some turn into large businesses.  One of the people I started in America is Custom Saddlery. Cary who owns the company is now a very good friend of mine. He started on my flocking course then did a saddle making course. Since then I have trained his staff in America Holland and the UK.

 

[Old Coach Saddlery]

NASS is a good place to start. They offer courses for saddle and bridle and harness. I have been doing repairs for 20 years and attended one of there courses a few years ago. I would start there. You will make some connections that will be very helpful in your learning process. You may even find someone in the states to apprentice with. 

As for shop size I agree that a large space is not needed. I worked in a space about 12 foot by 24 foot. It all in how you lay it out. I have 3 different benches.  2 sewing machines, a crank splitter, a crank creaser, and miscellaneous power tools.    

[CuttingHorse]

Thank you so much for all the information! Y'all are really helping me a lot!

@fivewayswelshcobs Are there still any colleges that do leather courses? That sounds like heaven, much more lively than the college courses I'm currently taking. I may end up going into either fitting or repair instead of both, but I want to keep my options open until I decide for sure. There's a lot of options out there!

That's a nice set up though! It sounds like you have lots of toys to play with. I feel like it's a leatherworker's burden to constantly be finding space for a new toy, there's just so many tools to collect! How do you organize your customer's saddles that come in for work? That's something I've been mulling over, short of having a separate room dedicated to storing saddles.

@gmace99 That was my thinking. If I can build it from the ground up, then I should be able to take it apart and fix it. One question for you, what would you recommend to continue my education on saddle making/repair after your class? I wouldn't be comfortable doing repairs after building one saddle. Should I go on to take the SMS course or is there a different way?

I've heard of Custom Saddlery! That's a fantastic saddle that Cary puts out. 

@Old Coach Saddlery That was my thinking with the NASS. It's a good starting point for a thorough education and I can build up connections. I've also heard that the owner Annette will help her students who have graduated the course, which is nice to hear.

It's good to know that a large workshop isn't needed, that will cut down on my costs a bit! I'm currently thinking a 30X30 space just to give me plenty of room. I know, I'm really jumping the gun planning my workshop, but I'd like to start thinking about what I want/need and saving for it.

 

Another question for y'all(sorry), but with repairing saddles, where would you learn how to restore saddles? I ask because I was looking at repair pictures by a saddlery and they had a picture of a Tad Coffin saddle that looked brand new in the after pictures. I'm not looking to steal their techniques or anything, I'm just intrigued by how they had managed to restore it to something that I would buy new from a tack store, short of rebuilding the entire thing. Here's a link to the website, the saddle is on the slideshow on the right. https://www.dutchessbridlesaddle.com/saddle---tack-repairs.html

Thank you again for all of y'all's help, I'm learning a lot!

[Old Coach Saddlery]

They are a repair shop. Looks like they replaced the seat, skirts, flaps and knee pads. But kept the original panels and perhaps sweat flaps. These are things you will figure out by building a saddle.

[CuttingHorse]

Thank you, that's what I was thinking! I just wasn't sure since the cost to repair something like that would probably sky high. Although, if this is the Tad Coffin saddle I think it is, replacing all the exposed leather pieces would still be cheaper than buying a new saddle.

[fivewayswelshcobs]

Unfortunately there is now  only one college offering saddlery courses and that is Capel Manor which is on the outskirts of London. We did try to get another to take on the course from Walsall College but they couldn't  agree on the price for tools etc- I think the truth was they didn't  have room or money for it. You do get to learn all aspects ie bridles, saddles and harness if you want so you get to cover more than just saddles which is very useful for repairs, ie stitching and strap work. The only problem with a college course it works at a slower rate but that allows more time to absorb and practice the required skills but not always at a level required for a business. Most of us learn the basics and then practice and use follow up courses to further develop skills and learn new ones.

Customer saddles used to come in the house on the spare bed but most are on a rail on the pallet racking.

[CuttingHorse]

I just looked up their saddlery course. Have you heard good things about their courses? I'm intrigued by the classes they offer, though it looks like I wouldn't be a certified Master Saddler/fitter/etc? Did I misread that? Where would a college course like that put me skill wise?

I can see the time factor being an issue, it looks to be a two year course to take, assuming there aren't other courses to take before.

[fivewayswelshcobs]

To be a Qualified Master Saddler you need at least 7 years in the trade, you need to take City and Guild exams at different levels to become a Qualified Saddler and then apply to become a Master Saddler after at least the 7 years it is not automatic. Anyone can become a Qualified Saddle Fitter after attending training although flocking training is also recommended and could be compulsory as could the Qualified Saddler qualification because of the problems of untrained people working on saddles causing problems to both horse and rider and damaging expensive saddles.

No college course or private course would automatically qualify you it gives you the basics.

I know very little of their courses but I do know people that started their training there before working at other saddlers for experience. The City And Guild exams  are standard where ever they are taken. You could consider an apprentice position but then these can be hard to find but may do the saddlery side and fitting that you want.

 

 

[fredk]

Really, thats all very interesting.

In no way am I questioning your information I'd just like to say I know [not personally, ie socially] of 3, perhaps 4, people who have set themselves up as saddlemakers through having done a few repairs on saddle and harness. From asking them I know they did not do any course at all on leatherwork never mind saddlery

[gmace99]

@CuttingHorse After making a saddle you should not be afraid of doing most repairs.  I would not recommend any saddle making course if you have not done any leather work at all. You need to have done thinks like make a bridle or a flocking course before you would be ready for it.  Most people I have taught have went onto doing the big repairs on saddles.

If you did my repair course you would not be able to do anywhere near the types of repairs you would do after a saddle making course.

As far as I am aware the SMS do not do saddle making or saddlery courses. They do show recommended training providers on their website. I am one of them. You would have to go to Mark Romains building if you wanted to sit an exam. However you can go to any provider including Mark to be trained.

My style of teaching is different from others . I am a factory saddler who made 5 or 6 saddles a week. Other saddlers are country saddlers who make one saddle a month. The only difference in the saddles are I know how to make it easier and faster for you.  This is how all your top companies make saddles.

Now I get to be big headed. Yes it is a nice saddle Cary puts out I showed him how to Make it.   He could not work out how to get his idea how to work.  That is why he called me to come up with the way to do it. I also designed his Flexi girth for him. It took six months to get it the way I wanted it.

My other hat is I fly across the world showing companies how to improve quality and production. (I am now retired from doing that I got to 55 and decided to relax.) 

@fivewayswelshcobs  Who are you I must know you and you me.

[gmace99]

@fredk  Anyone including my cleaner can say they are Master Saddlers Or saddle makers.  They Can not say they are Society of Master Saddlers Master saddlers.  To be a Society Master Saddler you need to be a working saddler for 7 years and win a premium award at the Saddler competition in London 

[fivewayswelshcobs]

Since George picked up he might know me (I met him a number of times a few years ago at SMS events) I will tell a bit more. I am a Qualified Master Saddler and Qualified Master Harnessmaker and a current member of the Society Of Master Saddlers (UK) but like everyone on this forum I am here to learn new and different skills as there a large number of highly skilled leather workers that are willing to share their experience and knowledge with everyone on the forum. I wanted to do saddlery for a good few years before I got the chance to learn it and my first belt was on a day course at Walsall Leather Museum with Val Micheal and I was hooked