need help choosing

[Wickedjester00]

New to leather working and also new to sewing 

oh by the way first post on here yay me  

Ok so complete noob here and decided hey why not get into leather working on a whim. loving it so far.

But i want to buy a sewing machine and not sure what route to go. I want to be a cheap bastard and at the same time i want to get a machine that will last me. So to ebay i went and i fell in love with the old singers, the style and durability just  amaze me for some of these machines to be 100 years old and still working wow. But whats the best model to get the 15-91, the  66 or any of the many others.  

I am trying to stay under 200$ right now, also i want to find something with a nice style I'm working on building my leather workshop and i want a machine that if people look in the shop they will "go wow thats beautiful" ( work shop is gonna be right next to my dinning room).

Looking over other pages like this i notice everyone always ask what will the machine be used for

Right now i have a few request from family and friends for wallets, handbags, sporrans (i designed my own pattern i'm quite happy about that),  i also want to do a duster a aussie hat oh i even have a request for a bike seat but i told that one give me time to get better. Eventually i do want to try holsters and even maybe shoes but i know that will take a much stronger machine. 

for now lets just say K.I.S.S. (keep it simple stupid) and say this machine will be mostly wallets and bags also practice

ranges of leather i have on hand right now are mostly from Springfield leather i will include links to all i have with this list 

Ugly leather bundle that ranges in 4-6oz leather

http://springfieldleather.com/Bundle-Ugly-Leather-50-ft

Remnants (7oz and up) (2-6oz) these are mostly just for tooling practice maybe the smaller oz learther will be for wallets 

http://springfieldleather.com/2lbs-Lightweight-Veg-Tan-Scrap

http://springfieldleather.com/2lbs-Heavyweight-Veg-Tan-Scrap

Bison side 3-5oz and 6-8oz

http://springfieldleather.com/Bison-Sides-Tobacco-8-10-oz.

http://springfieldleather.com/Bison-Sides-Chocolate-8-10-oz.

Suede 

http://springfieldleather.com/Chinese-Dragon-Suede-Metallic

also have some random 3-4oz veg tan from ebay

the thicker stuff i know will be harder to sew no worries there i have plenty of time to hand sew at 1 of my jobs. 

Thank you all, yes i know there are probably 100 threads (lol) that are asking for the same info, and yes i have been using the search feature to read all i can on the topic. Its just so much info to take in all at once and i'm easy to confuse I just read something cool about the 15-91 then read on the 66 then the model 7s and wait was that bit about the 15 or the 66 and this or that and crap lost my place... thats how it ends up going for me lol. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Wizcrafts]

All of those machines you listed are domestic, garment sewing machines, with bottom feed only. They all have moving parts and tensioning springs that were designed to only handle the force exerted by cotton and linen thread. As such, these are NOT leather sewing machines for anything much thicker than 3/32 of an inch. That would be a combined leather thickness of 6 ounces (two 3 oz pieces). Some may even sew 8 ounces, but you'd have to crank the presser foot spring down all the way. reducing the stitch length from the huge top drag.

In my experience with these old iron domestic machines, some can handle up to #69 bonded thread, top and bottom, using a #18 leather point needle. But that is it. Nothing thicker. Only the ancient Model 27 was truly able to sew 8-9 ounces of bridle leather, but only with #69 bonded nylon thread and a #18 needle. The Model 66 was the least capable machine for sewing leather. And the much sought after 15-91 has the most gutless pod motor that can't even penetrate 8 ounces of bridle leather on its own, without turning the wheel by hand.

Listen friend, if you came here wanting to know about the type of machine you need to sew real leather, stop with the domestic sewing machines and start looking at compound feed walking foot machines, like the Consew P1206RB. It is an entry level machine, retailing at just under a thousand dollars, fully equipped, that is able to sew up to 3/8 inch of leather, with #138 bonded thread, using a #22 or 23 needle.

[Yetibelle]

Well - while they are great machines (I love every Singer Machine), they are all home machines and not really setup for leather sewing.  I am sure some are very strong machine, but you may get frustrated with them as you sew leather.  Read Wizcrafts post on the first page of the forum, about "The Type of Sewing Machine you need to Sew Leather", he does a great job going over how it all works. 

Singer Dream Machine would be a model 97-10 or a Class 8

 

 

 

 

3 minutes ago, Wizcrafts said:

All of those machines you listed are domestic, garment sewing machines, with bottom feed only. They all have moving parts and tensioning springs that were designed to only handle the force exerted by cotton and linen thread. As such, these are NOT leather sewing machines for anything much thicker than 3/32 of an inch. That would be a combined leather thickness of 6 ounces (two 3 oz pieces). Some may even sew 8 ounces, but you'd have to crank the presser foot spring down all the way. reducing the stitch length from the huge top drag.

In my experience with these old iron domestic machines, some can handle up to #69 bonded thread, top and bottom, using a #18 leather point needle. But that is it. Nothing thicker. Only the ancient Model 27 was truly able to sew 8-9 ounces of bridle leather, but only with #69 bonded nylon thread and a #18 needle. The Model 66 was the least capable machine for sewing leather. And the much sought after 15-91 has the most gutless pod motor that can't even penetrate 8 ounces of bridle leather on its own, without turning the wheel by hand.

Listen friend, if you came here wanting to know about the type of machine you need to sew real leather, stop with the domestic sewing machines and start looking at compound feed walking foot machines, like the Consew P1206RB. It is an entry level machine, retailing at just under a thousand dollars, fully equipped, that is able to sew up to 3/8 inch of leather, with #138 bonded thread, using a #22 or 23 needle.

DARN you beat me .... haha

 

[Wickedjester00]

12 minutes ago, Wizcrafts said:

All of those machines you listed are domestic, garment sewing machines, with bottom feed only. They all have moving parts and tensioning springs that were designed to only handle the force exerted by cotton and linen thread. As such, these are NOT leather sewing machines for anything much thicker than 3/32 of an inch. That would be a combined leather thickness of 6 ounces (two 3 oz pieces). Some may even sew 8 ounces, but you'd have to crank the presser foot spring down all the way. reducing the stitch length from the huge top drag.

In my experience with these old iron domestic machines, some can handle up to #69 bonded thread, top and bottom, using a #18 leather point needle. But that is it. Nothing thicker. Only the ancient Model 27 was truly able to sew 8-9 ounces of bridle leather, but only with #69 bonded nylon thread and a #18 needle. The Model 66 was the least capable machine for sewing leather. And the much sought after 15-91 has the most gutless pod motor that can't even penetrate 8 ounces of bridle leather on its own, without turning the wheel by hand.

Listen friend, if you came here wanting to know about the type of machine you need to sew real leather, stop with the domestic sewing machines and start looking at compound feed walking foot machines, like the Consew P1206RB. It is an entry level machine, retailing at just under a thousand dollars, fully equipped, that is able to sew up to 3/8 inch of leather, with #138 bonded thread, using a #22 or 23 needle.

thanks for the info while i would love to get a 1000$ machine thats a bit to far from my price range especially when i'm just starting out. I was just hoping one of those models would work for the mean time.  Maybe it's a good thing that i didnt win the bed on the 15-91 that i had on ebay (almost had it at 100$ till someone bid it up to 152$ at the last 5 mins) .... i might just stick to hand sewing for awhile if it take 1000$ to get a machine worth it. I actually looked at the pics you have on your profile while reading over your pinned post and saw you had a redeye, even if they are not great for leather working they do look great right

9 minutes ago, Yetibelle said:

Well - while they are great machines (I love every Singer Machine), they are all home machines and not really setup for leather sewing.  I am sure some are very strong machine, but you may get frustrated with them as you sew leather.  Read Wizcrafts post on the first page of the forum, about "The Type of Sewing Machine you need to Sew Leather", he does a great job going over how it all works. 

Singer Dream Machine would be a model 97-10 or a Class 8

I have looked at Wizcraft's post you talked about... but im not the brightest crown in the box and im finding alot of this sewing machine stuff hard to understand i havent touched one since my grandmother passed away about 12ish years ago. when i was in the Marines if i needed something sewed i just took it to the shop if my cammies or something ripped i just patched them by hand.
The machine in that pic is massive! I dont even think that thing would fit in the room i have set aside for a work shop, dang that thing looks serious.   

[Yetibelle]

That machine is massive.  It's a wish list machine not a great machine for daily use.  

Back to your problem.... you don't need to spend $1000.  You can find them for a few hundred or less sometimes.  Granted a $50 machine may need work, but I have found some $150 machines in really good order.  

To break down the Wiz masters post - you need a walking foot machine.  I regular home machine does not have a walking foot.  Plus a home machine uses a tiny needle and thin thread that does. It work so well sewing leather.  

So you probolly don't want the big class 8, but I think a model 111w155 would be good.  Watch how the foot walks.  

 

 

 

[Wickedjester00]

1 minute ago, Yetibelle said:

That machine is massive.  It's a wish list machine not a great machine for daily use.  

Back to your problem.... you don't need to spend $1000.  You can find them for a few hundred or less sometimes.  Granted a $50 machine may need work, but I have found some $150 machines in really good order.  

To break down the Wiz masters post - you need a walking foot machine.  I regular home machine does not have a walking foot.  Plus a home machine uses a tiny needle and thin thread that does. It work so well sewing leather.  

So you probolly don't want the big class 8, but I think a model 111w155 would be good.  Watch how the foot walks.  

 

 

 im re reading that post for maybe the 4th time seeing if it makes any more sense to me it kind of dose but not really lol

but thanks for the suggestion i will look into it and cant watch the vid while im at work (stupid company blocked youtube those bastards) but i will check it out later when i get home  

[Wizcrafts]

1 minute ago, Wickedjester00 said:

 im re reading that post for maybe the 4th time seeing if it makes any more sense to me it kind of dose but not really lol

but thanks for the suggestion i will look into it and cant watch the vid while im at work (stupid company blocked youtube those bastards) but i will check it out later when i get home  

The main difference between walking foot and flat foot machines is that all straight stitch bottom feed machines have to move the material is the teeth on the dog, whereas the walking foot machines have a moving feed dog, in sync with a moving needle and moving inside foot, plus up/down motion presser foot. This is known as compound or triple feed. The feet alternate up and down, allowing them to climb up and down over layers. They are built for upholstery use at a minimum, thus have much stronger cranks, bearings and springs.

Check out your local and nearby Craigslist for an upholstery shop selling off a used walking foot machine. They sometimes let them go for $500, or even a little less, depending on how badly shot they are. These machines are rode hard and put up wet and usually have clutch motors that run at 1725 rpm.. You'd probably need to buy a servo motor to be able to sew slowly. Add about $135, plus $10 for a new v-belt.

[Wickedjester00]

4 minutes ago, Wizcrafts said:

The main difference between walking foot and flat foot machines is that all straight stitch bottom feed machines have to move the material is the teeth on the dog, whereas the walking foot machines have a moving feed dog, in sync with a moving needle and moving inside foot, plus up/down motion presser foot. This is known as compound or triple feed. The feet alternate up and down, allowing them to climb up and down over layers. They are built for upholstery use at a minimum, thus have much stronger cranks, bearings and springs.

Check out your local and nearby Craigslist for an upholstery shop selling off a used walking foot machine. They sometimes let them go for $500, or even a little less, depending on how badly shot they are. These machines are rode hard and put up wet and usually have clutch motors that run at 1725 rpm.. You'd probably need to buy a servo motor to be able to sew slowly. Add about $135, plus $10 for a new v-belt.

Not much for upholstery shops out in the boonies of WV lol but yeah after reading that pinned post of yours for the 4th time I'm starting to get more of the picture 

Idk how I glanced over the buyer beware for eBay false advertising part

Oh btw happy birthday what it's in 6 days (noticed that on there also )

[480volt]

Old Singer (and other) industrials pop up constantly on CL where I am located, if you educate yourself on machines adequate to the task and you are patient, you should find something. Around here, walking foot machines seem to get offered for around 600-800, Singer 31-15 & 31-20 machines seem to go for 200. As Wiz said, they virtually always have clutch motors that you need to slow down or put on a servo motor.

[Wickedjester00]

12 minutes ago, 480volt said:

Old Singer (and other) industrials pop up constantly on CL where I am located, if you educate yourself on machines adequate to the task and you are patient, you should find something. Around here, walking foot machines seem to get offered for around 600-800, Singer 31-15 & 31-20 machines seem to go for 200. As Wiz said, they virtually always have clutch motors that you need to slow down or put on a servo motor.

Well I am a patient man. thats why I think for now I'm gonna just keep hand sewing and use the 200$ I would have spent and buy supplies to build my workshop.

But I will keep a eye on CL thanks for the advice on prices from your area 

[strathmoredesigns]

Just a suggestion, but if you've been away from sewing machines for a while, it might not be a bad idea just to do a refresher on those first? I've been hand stitching for a bit now, but never really learned how to use a sewing machine, so I'm going to take a class at my local JoAnn's to get familiar with how they work in general before I try to figure out what I'd want in a leather sewing machine.

Thanks @Wizcrafts for calling out a good entry level machine (Consew P1206RB) for me to look at. I've read the big sewing chains, but have been still trying to figure that one out for a while! 

[Wickedjester00]

Yeah @strathmoredesigns im holding off for now... But, if no one out bids me i might end up owning a singer redeye for 99cents anyway. It only has 43 hours left on the auction table and has a cut foot peddle. When i put the bid in i figured that is a easy fix why not if i can use it well i was wrong lol. Hell if by luck i win it i will just clean it up resale it or just keep it to practice on before i get one that will work with leather. 

[Hockeymender]

Completely off topic, but having spent a lot of happy hours in Morgantown, I love that part of WV. Was in Fairmont quite a few times as well, lovely country. 

[Chayse]

I second the notion of checking the local CL, LetGo, or classifieds.....DAILY! I have found all my machines local via CL or LetGo...all (with the exception of 1) for $250. My last purchase was the Singer 29K71 that I picked up for $300. Don't get discouraged and keeping looking...sooner or later you will find your first machine. But, as many will say, that is just the beginning...it is a slippery slope. I started with just one...and now have 4 industrial machines...and to me, it is just a hobby. If you plan on making a living, well, I think you are going to need a bigger shop!! Good luck!!

[Wickedjester00]

33 minutes ago, Hockeymender said:

Completely off topic, but having spent a lot of happy hours in Morgantown, I love that part of WV. Was in Fairmont quite a few times as well, lovely country. 

yeah its actually a lovely area and the bars in motown are a hell of a lot of fun especially when the college kids are around  

[dikman]

Wicked, there is a lot to learn about industrial sewing machines, particularly relating to leather use. Just keep reading, it took me quite a while to start coming to grips with the subject. For what you want to do any of the "old standbys" should be more than adequate - Juki 562/563, Consew 206, Singer 111W153/154/155, Singer 211G165/166, Seiko STH-BLD, all are pretty similar in operation and capability. Or a Pfaff 335 cylinder arm. These machines are all "oldies but goodies".

[trash treasure]

Also totally off topic, but not about the bars at least

That photo of the 8 class machine - How did they control the speed when it was hooked up to a line shaft, like that one was set up for ?

Was there a clutch they could feather ?

[mikesc]

to add to dikman's post..
If possible, get a machine with reverse..turning work around in order to be able to stitch in the other direction ( or to "lock off" a seam end or beginning ) can become a "pain in the donkey" real fast.

Edited July 14, 2017 by mikesc

[shoepatcher]

Normally there was a clutch type mechanism on the balance wheel that could be pressed to engage the drive on the line shaft.  I think they were S.D.A. which stood for Singer Driving Attachment??  Help me here Bob Kovar.

glenn