Pricking Irons

[divergeknife]

Hey, new here and just making my first leather sheath. My question is regarding making the holes for stitching. initially I used a laser to cuz out a pattern, then made .03 in. holes to line up during glueing. Of course I then found out how much of a pain it was to try and glue up a sheath with pre-done holes and make each side of the sheath and the welt perfectly.

My new plan is to just cut out the sheath shape and welt and line the edges up as good as I can and glue up using contact cement. I'll then use pricking irons to make the holes all the way through.

My question is regarding the sizes of pricking irons. I ordered .8 mm tiger thread and I ordered 0,00,000 harness needles (the cheap ones kept breaking) but I don't know how to size the actual "pricks" of the pricking irons. I like the look of about 6 holes per inch which is what I used in my CAD drawing. My other concern besides holes per inch is the actual hole size left over for ease of threading. All the videos I watch the people just do it by hand for the most part, I know my holes aren't perfect but they still around only off about maybe 10% and I'm having a hard time getting the needles through easily. Thank you in advance.

 

I bought these in 4mm. Is this the proper size or should I get bigger?

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B014549SNG/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[zuludog]

There is a lot of confusion around this topic, and it crops up regularly on this forum. Browse through some previous threads & posts

Strictly speaking, pricking irons have short stubby prongs and are used to set the spacing of stitching holes by making indentations in the leather. Then you make the actual holes with a saddler's awl

Stitching chisels have longer prongs and are intended to be knocked all the way through the leather, thus they both set the spacing and make the holes; though there is nothing to stop you just using them for spacing by hitting them with only moderate force

What sort of leather are you using? I expect it will be veg tan about 3mm thick, so for a knife sheath there will be front + back + welt = 9mm. This is about the limit for a chisel so you might have to do a bit of extra work with a saddler's/harness/diamond awl. If you need to enlarge the holes use a round/scratch awl; this will stretch the leather without cutting it. Afterwards the holes will close up

6 holes per inch is about 4mm spacing, so you have chosen the right size chisel, and the individual holes should be big enough

Britain and USA use two different systems for describing the size of needles, and I'm not too sure what size  0,00,000 is, and I haven't been able to find a comparison/conversion chart. But a commonly used size for thickish leather is John James size 2, in the British system. If you order a size 2 under the USA system that will be too big. Nigel Armitage shows this very well in his video 'Saddle Stitch in Detail' at about 3min 40sec to 4min30sec.

This supplier's website has a table & description of needle sizes and thread combinations, including ritza/tiger thread www.rmleathersupply.com

You shouldn't have much difficulty hand sewing. You should be able to use your fingers about 95% of the time, with a slight resistance or drag, the exception being when backstitching. There are lots of videos on saddle stitching; those by Nigel Armitage are good, but watch as many as you can, and gradually pick up ideas & tips

If you do have to use pliers to pull the needle & thread wrap the jaws in tape to prevent damage to the needle. Whether by hand or with pliers use a straight pull. Resist the temptation to waggle the needle about, that is what causes it to break at the eye

I assume a laser will make a round hole, like a small drill bit. The hole made by a stitching chisel or a saddler's awl is more like a slit, and this will expand & stretch a bit more than a round hole. You may well find that when you change to the chisels, the needles  pass through easier. Lubricate the prongs occasionally with beeswax, that will make them easier to pull out

Ian Atkinson/Leodis Leather and Jackal;ore have some excellent videos on making sheaths, but there are others. Again, watch as many as you have the stamina for

It is possible to sew a sheath by making holes in the two sides separately, then lining them up together to sew, but you have to be careful & precise. Glue the welt to one side then make holes in one side and one side+ welt

Edited September 13, 2017 by zuludog

[Instinctive]

Here is what works for me after a bunch of experimenting.

I draw all my sheath patterns with a  cad system and mark and pre-punch all my holes with a  00 punch at 6 mm spacing.

After applying the glue and letting it dry, I use small finish nails to line every up. Applying the welt on one side of the sheath and then folding the sheath to complete the assembly, clamping as I go.

I stitch with 1.14 mm (.045") thread. After stitching, I use a drum sander to even the edges and make them ready for finishing (I hand cut my sheaths)

I tried the method you describe above and it is virtually impossible to punch all the way through and have  a decent looking job. The chisel prongs are just not long enough and they are really hard to remove when driven all the way.

[divergeknife]

Yes, sorry these are chisels then, as they have long prongs long enough to penetrate 3 layers of 7/8 weight leather.  I've watched Ian Atkinson, great resource. This is actually what gave me the idea to punch all the way through with the chisel.

 

Was your reason it doesn't come out looking good because you couldn't get the chisel back out? Ending up messing with the leather too much?

[Instinctive]

I tend to use heavier 8/9 oz leather and thicker thread to accommodate heavy bushcraft knives. 7 oz leather is about the limit for stitching chisels. 3 layers of 8/9 oz is too thick. The process I have punching the holes before assembly is one I have worked on for a while and has become pretty easy for me know. I actually started to use it when I did some sheaths with paracord stitching.

Please be sure to post a pic when you have finished.

[Stetson912]

Well, it's sort of subjective. Look on YouTube for Nigel Armitage's. He has a whole mess of very detailed videos on pricking irons and a few diamond chisels as well. Some are very expensive and meant for a professional but some are much more affordable. He gives a great deal of information and price ranges and an honest opinion along with examples of the stitch each iron produces. Well worth the time watching them. 

As far as a good quality chisel goes, I hear crimson hides chisels are among the best (Nigel reviews these). But they carry a premium price as well. 

I believe .8 tiger thread at 5-6 spi is a good balance. 

Keep in mind too, if you get a pricking iron you'll have to be confident that with your awl as well. And that's an entirely different skill set than just lining up leather and punching through with a chisel. 

Best of luck finding what you need. Just keep in mind, get what works for you. 

[divergeknife]

This is before I brought the sheath to work and burnished the edges better and such. Just checked fit which is really snug.

 

 

[divergeknife]

Knife is one I made, but this is my first leather sheath. Always preferred leather to kydex.