Cowboy cb3200 or cb4500?

[Bustedmp77]

The time is coming soon that I am either adding an electric machine to use in addition to my Tippmann Boss, or getting a larger machine to replace it. What I'm looking at is the CB3200 and using that for belts, knife sheaths, some of my holsters and using the Boss for my thicker holsters. Or possibly getting the CB4500 and selling the Boss.

I have sewn 5 layers of 9/10oz with my Boss in the past. The only downside was I had to mark my stitch locations and lift the presser foot and move my work to get the stitch length I wanted. Will the 4500 handle that thickness without manually moving the work for 5 to 6 stitches per inch? Will the CB4500 sew thinner material like the 3200? I have used my boss to sew a few lead shot filled suede pouches to use for weights and it did just fine after I adjusted the tension lower. The 4500 package is $1000 more than the 3200 without any extras. I'm guessing I could figure another $300 to $400 for presser feet and edge guide if I choose the 3200? 

What would the Boss be worth being just over a year old if I decide to sell it? If I go with the 4500, I see no need to keep it, and I am pretty certain whatever I could get out of it would offset the price difference between the two machines I am interested in. 

Thank in advance.

[Wizcrafts]

I will address your concerns about the CB4500, as I own one.

The CB4500 has the capability of sewing from about 6 ounces (with thin #92 thread) up to about 56 ounces (~ 7/8 inch). Both extremes require some tweaking.

I already wrote a blog article explaining how to dumb down a Cowboy CB4500 to sew thin material with thin thread.

The other end is not really explained yet. I will tell you the basic path I took to sew a holster that was just shy of an inch thick.

The alternating lift of the inside and outside feet is usually set fairly high to clear new layers of 8-10 ounce leather. The higher the lift of the feet, the more you lose at the very top end of sewing capacity. So, my first step was to reduce the lift to the machine's minimum setting (done on the back). This resulted in an alternating lift of under 1/8 inch.

I used the standard low throat plate and feed dog, but I lowered the fully raised position of the teeth to just be level with the top of the throat plate.

I used the standard double toe outside foot and the movable sliding edge guide to set the distance to the needle at a 1/4 inch from the beveled edge. I replaced my standard pressure spring with a heavier duty spring Bob Kovar mailed to me. The standard spring was a tad lacking for such a thick stack of veg-tan leather. I understand that the CB4500s now ship with the heavier spring if you request it up front. That spring got cranked almost all the way down to keep the feet from lifting with the big needle and thread payload.

I ordered diamond point needles in size 25 and used #277 thread. All that remained was balancing the height of the knots and the stitch length.

This combination allowed me to sew a 7/8 inch+ holster at 5 to the inch without cutting the threads as I crossed over them to lock them in. Also, the diamond point holes caused the thread to sit more on the surface for a better appearance, unlike the S points that submerge the edges of the thread and shorten the stitch length visually.

Here is that holster.

[Bustedmp77]

Thanks Wiz. As of now, the thinnest I get into is 5 ounce. I have an old Singer machine my mom gave me that she used for sewing heavy canvas material. I know it will punch through 12oz leather, just not with any control. I am sure if It is slowed down, it would handle whatever thin material the 4500 won't. 

I do like that holster BTW. I'd be proud the wear that one!

[Yetibelle]

I typically see "The Boss" sell between $800-950, mind you I mean sell.  The Boss packages I see listed every few months start out at $1200 and then after a few month drop and sell in the sub $1000 area. 

I went with the CB4500 and really love it.  You can always start with the base package and then add to it as you go.  I found I like Uwe's  flat top table a lot more than the standard table as an example.  Really it does seam like a lot of money, but after messing with 80-100 year old machines having a new machine that works each time you step-up to it is a real pleasure.  Plus unlike most other technology this machine will probably last 80 years also. In fact I will even go so far as to say if you get one you will soon find yourself wanting a second one (and totally justifying it also).  HAHA

 

 

 

[Singermania]

Hi,  its Steve Bonnett from over in Australia, we are the Aussie importer and distributor of these 3200 and 4500 machines.    Without going crazy into technical stuff the main differences between the two models are the 3200 has the shorter arm and will sew 15mm thickness and the 4500 has the 16 inch arm and will sew 20mm.   Yes you can tweak them both to get a bit more.   Out here most of the knife sheath and holster guys buy the CB3200.

Once you use a compound feed machine with a slow powerful motor and reverse, you will never want to go back to a hand crank.

Out here we package them with the double toe leather foot, left and right leather foot, left and right dogleg foot, blanket foot, roller guide, standard needle plate, narrow slotted plate, stirrup and holster plates... plus the usual bobbins and a couple packs of needles.   Prices here are $3400 and $4400, less over there in US dollars.  In theory the 450 can do everything the 3200 can, but the 3200 cant step up to the 4500.   Both machines will take a 130 needle and fine thread for lighter jobs

[Bustedmp77]

I spoke with Ryan Neel a few days ago, and I have decided to go with the 4500. While my Boss will handle the odd thick stuff just like the 4500, the 4500 allows me to use both of my hands to manipulate my work. I am aware what I could sell my boss for when I get the cowboy. Now I just need to figure out when I can make the trip to Ohio to pick one up. I'm glad I saved most of my scraps larger than 2 inches square. I'm not sure how I'll manage using both hands on my work!

[Bustedmp77]

I wasn't real concerned with the flat top attachment. My dad has a very well equipped wood shop, and I'm very handy with metal fabrication. 

 

[Singermania]

You will love the CB4500, the difference is amazing.  They are super reliable, tough and very adaptable, so you can go from light to heavy jobs without a blip....

the optional flat table is good but we only sell one in about 15 machines... we say to people they are $185  but you can knock one up out of plywood in a couple of hours.   If you are doing big jobs then that table is not big enough anyway and you'd be better to cut a slot in a bench and roll the machine in.

[Bustedmp77]

Just now, Singermania said:

You will love the CB4500, the difference is amazing.  They are super reliable, tough and very adaptable, so you can go from light to heavy jobs without a blip....

I'm loving the idea of it already. I'm giving up a new seat for my motorcycle to go with the 4500 over the 3200. But when I sell the boss, there's my new seat.

[Singermania]

You'll easily make a new seat with the new machine, really not hard, you just cut out the pieces and sew em together...

[Bustedmp77]

Not intending to make a seat just yet. I'm after a nice Mustang seat. Function over form for me there!

I did consider reshaping my factory seat though before. 

Edited February 23, 2018 by Bustedmp77

[Bustedmp77]

Well, in a few weeks I'll be making the drive to pick up a new CB4500. Ryan said he would have it ready for me by the 13th, but I can't go out until the 24th. The wait is agonizing!

[RusticLeatherShop]

I believe the CB4500 is the right choice. What you really want is the higher foot lift and thicker sewing capacity. The Cowboy 4500 sews about 7/8".

Longer or shorter arm is not that important IMHO unless you sew saddles and blanquets. But it's a nice add on since some Holsters a a bit cumbersome and big and so you can easily turn them around without needing to Twist and bend the leather through them machines space.

I myself have sewn shoe soles (outer sole + thick PU middle sole + top leather) which maxes out the capacity of foot lift (any less then 7/8" foot lift would make it impossible to sew that). So the foot lift is the most important Feature which you really Need.

[alpha2]

Yes, with the bigger one, you can always sew smaller items, but with the small one, you can't sew larger stuff. For the difference in price, I went with the one I'll never have to upgrade. Buy once, cry once!

Jeff