Do you dye the flesh side of veg tan?

[Tangent Creations]

Here's a question for y'all... Do you dye the flesh side of veg tan? We get alot of 'guff' about our products being unfinished because the flesh side is not dyed. The people who purchase our products are usually thrilled with the outcome of a custom piece, but when we post the pic to show our work we get flamed up one side and down the other for what some people (not the customer) consider to be an 'unfinished' piece. That is never the case. We finish each piece as it needs to be finished. We then explain why we don't dye the back. Maybe it's just the boards that we post on, or too many people that just feel better about themselves if they flame everyone else?

What does everyone here do to finish the flesh side of their work? I'm at a loss. :

[whinewine]

Here's a question for y'all... Do you dye the flesh side of veg tan? We get alot of 'guff' about our products being unfinished because the flesh side is not dyed. The people who purchase our products are usually thrilled with the outcome of a custom piece, but when we post the pic to show our work we get flamed up one side and down the other for what some people (not the customer) consider to be an 'unfinished' piece. That is never the case. We finish each piece as it needs to be finished. We then explain why we don't dye the back. Maybe it's just the boards that we post on, or too many people that just feel better about themselves if they flame everyone else?

What does everyone here do to finish the flesh side of their work? I'm at a loss. :

If it will show, I'll dye it & seal it as well as possible (such as the underside of a purse strap). The insides of purses I will also dye. It just makes for a much more finished-looking product, IMHO.

The backs of belts, no. (Sweat & natural body oils will take care of that).

Black is a whole different issue. I try never to use black if at all possible (because of the crocking issue-although the eco black has much less crocking... however, because it's water-based, it presents an entirely different set of problems...)

[wolvenstien]

First off.... if you are going to boards and posting and getting flamed.... screw em....

It is totally up to you as the artist. It is your creation and you do it as you see fit.... The customers who buy your products and pay your bills do not complain.... you are doing it right....

I am like whinewine, it depends on the item I am making.... some items get dyed and finished as I am making it, others get done once it is put together.... a picture gets nothing on the backside.... a knife sheath gets nothing inside it, or in the belt loop.... but a box, or whatever would... just depends on the item and the application.... Attached is a pic of a box I made to hold a set of dominos I made last Christmas for a friend... I dyed and oiled it inside and out.... now when i do a collar for a pet, i do not do the inside, but if it is for a human... I do... just depends...

[Tangent Creations]

What is 'crocking"? that is new to me...

Also, if you dye the inside of a human collar (and I get requests to dye the inside of belts as well) what do you use to keep it from bleeding? Or am I doing something wrong. But I agree, I HATE using black. Nothing I do keeps it from bleeding, no matter what finish I use.

Thanks for your help!!!

[abn]

T.C.,

I don't dye the insides of belts or wristbands -- I just leave 'em natural and like that look. However, here are a few threads in which this was discussed, as well as some options for sealing in the color if you do decide to dye the insides of your projects.

http://www.leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=707

http://www.leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=282

I hope this information helps! -Alex

p.s. Wolvenstien has a point -- If you're satisfied with the end product and so is the customer, why bother?

[Art]

Hi,

Crocking is just the dye coming off and transfering to whatever it touches. I do use a lot of black and I get sides drum dyed from the tanner (HO). I also have them gum the backs (also called moss back) which helps although you can do this yourself with gum tragacanth. When I line with calf or kip I do not color it, just leave it natural, it will age with use however, I do the edges if needed with water based acrylic (carefully) which holds-up ok; but would rather not if possible. Some tanneries strike deep with their dyes and some are shallow. If I have good strike through, I can just slick the edges, which I prefer.

Art

What is 'crocking"? that is new to me...

Also, if you dye the inside of a human collar (and I get requests to dye the inside of belts as well) what do you use to keep it from bleeding? Or am I doing something wrong. But I agree, I HATE using black. Nothing I do keeps it from bleeding, no matter what finish I use.

Thanks for your help!!!

[Tangent Creations]

Those two links were awesome for info!

Thanks again!

And as far as customers go, we do about everything we can to make them happy and in 3 years got our first complaint about belts not being dyed all the way around. We explained why this is and told them we'd dye the backs if they send them back to us, or we'll send them dye, but we won't be held responsible if their clothes turn red...

[whinewine]

What is 'crocking"? that is new to me...

Also, if you dye the inside of a human collar (and I get requests to dye the inside of belts as well) what do you use to keep it from bleeding? Or am I doing something wrong. But I agree, I HATE using black. Nothing I do keeps it from bleeding, no matter what finish I use.

Thanks for your help!!!

'Crocking' is simply rub-off. There is so much pigment in black dyes that one has to keep buffing (and buffing...and buffing...and...) just to remove enough so that it still looks black but doesn't rub off terribly much anymore & can be (somewhat, anyway) sealed. It's better to use drum-dyed black, for the most part, rather than try to dye it yourself.

[Johanna]

When they judge at shows, they do look for a finished interior, but it does not need to be colored. They do expect that the flesh side is smooth. With vegetable tanned leather, sometimes water and a good burnish, or rub with canvas or deerskin is sufficient. If an item is going to be worn, I prefer to use Leather Balm or some kind of wax for the burnish, because my skin is very sensitive, and it will break out in hives when I sweat on the raw leather. If I were entering an item in competition, I would wax it just for show, for a customer, it would depend on how well the leather took the standard water rub.

Johanna

[Guest]

Geat topic and some interesting responses.

I'm reminded of an episode of a new series on TLC. It is called Hard Shine and is about apprentices working at the SoCal Speed Shop..... They make high dollar hot rods. One of the young apprentices was assigned the job of fabricating a bracket to hold electrical "stuff" under the dash board. The kid welded up a great bracket, ground and polished the welds and put a terrific brushed finish on the metal..... Five hours later he showed it to his boss and the guy hit the ceiling! 5 Hours on a bracket that will never be seen again? We charge this guy (the customer) $125 an hour.... you just made him a $625 bracket that no one will ever know exists.

Everything has an expected level of finish....and you need to know from the start of the project what level you are going use for each thing you make. I put a lot of time into the backs of my motorcycle seats; because they can be seen when on the motorcycle. Even if they can't be seen, the seat pivots up for battery access and THEN you CAN see the backs.....but do I dye and burnish the flesh sides? No, never.

Binders, belts and holsters....I put a lining in them and finish them as carefully as the fronts...but that is my preference for a level of finish.

Dave Theobald