Knée rolls, restuffing material

[Silverd]

Hello,

I have a client wishing to repair an older Stubbed Saddle.  The work will include new billets and replacement of the knee rolls.  Currently there is nothing in the rolls, no padding, horse hair or frock and the top leather of both pockets are torn.  I plan to drop the front of the saddle to gain access to the billets and will remake and sew in new pocket top leather as needed. 

What is the preferred and proper padding material to use?

Thank you in advance,

Silverd

[Silverd]

Original knee roll freashly opened....that's how old!  Anybody want to take a stab at what kind of padding I should consider using for the repair?

Sikverd

[BOB BRENNER]

     There are many choices when it comes to the foam for the insert.  Would suggest an open cell or closed cell neoprene foam in the thickness required, with 1/4" to ½" common.   I use 3/8" closed cell.  Closed cell holds up a little better than open cell, but has a harder feel.  

[valafar]

You would use an open cell foam with a medium density you can get something close at ir specialty number ul 35

the foam has to be supportive but also be able to displace the air a lot of saddles will have vent holes under to allow the foam to sink as the knee is applied . 

You have to be careful working on older saddles it can be a can of worms and it probably doesn't fit the horse properly anyway.  I can give you some help if you like my info is on my website Greg Allan Saddlery Or my facebook 

GB

[jcuk]

I know its the other side of the pond but this may help you if not take a look at the other foams and neoprene on their site.

I am sure you will be able to get the same foams closer to you but this will give you a idea what you are looking for send contact them 

see what they would recommend.

Also making an exact pair out of the foam is tricky in itself at times, if you buy the pre-moulded ones, it will be easier to make them fit. 

http://abbeyengland.com/Store/CategoryID/407/List/0/Level/a/ProductID/68930

http://abbeyengland.com/Store/List/0/CategoryID/398/Level/a

 

Hope this helps

JCUK

Edited February 25, 2019 by jcuk
Link didn't work

[jcuk]

Also this may help.

 

Hope this helps

 

JCUK

 

[Silverd]

Hi

Thank you for the great input.  Went to Abbey of England as they should know what they are doing.  Customer service very prompt and helpful.  This is what they recommended.  

Plastazote Foam 45KG / cubic Meter density.  This converts to about 2.8lb / cubic ft.  I ordered a 40" X 40" sheet of 3/4" from Amazon...$130.00 or so.  A bit more expensive than I'd like to pay but I'll have it and can tell skeptical customers that it is Abbey England recommended. 
 

"Can of Worms"  Indeed. I purchased an inexpensive Argentinian Saddle that also requires knee roll re-stuffing. The leather on this saddle is in pretty good condition so I don't plan to replace the pad covers but I'm using it as a practice mule in preparation for repairing my real client's Subben saddle that does need pads re-stuffed and recovered.  I've cut the pop stitches on the Argentinian Saddle at the saddle front to allow me access to the Billets and knee pads which I stuffed with some foam scrap material that I had already, then re-stitched the pads back together and back onto the flaps using a 441 clone.   I made a simple sling suspend the saddle from the ceiling at the correct height and orientation for the machine.  Things went relatively well considering its a first attempt!    The point of all of this effort is for me to offer knee pad and billet replacement without having to pull the saddles completely apart or hand stitch the pads back onto the flaps.  From what I have seen locally this is a common repair but is normally quoted at a rate that often exceeds the value of an older saddle if it can be done at all.  

The other comment I read in the string above is with respect to the underside padding and how it changes shape over time to the point where they no longer fit the horse correctly.  I don't have any saddle fitting experience; obviously something I'll need to get training on if I want to one day address an important part of English Saddle repair and or making.    But I have been working with a Rancher who teaches, judges and who has been in the Equestrian industry for a very long time...Was a Jockey at Santa Anita track etc.   She has many student saddles, some of which are in incredibly poor condition she uses regularly.  These saddles not only have knee pads that are torn out or missing but the underside pads on some are cracked and open.  My initial thinking was they are worthless junk, but she maintains they still fit the target horse and are acceptable as is...So where in lies the truth?   Do the pads really require re flocking at some point or is this procedure that is largely an unnecessary practice for horse owns who are very fussy?    

[jcuk]

Sorry for the late reply been pretty busy not sure if you have  done the work if so how did it go?

 

I have worked in the horse racing Industry for many years and racing people compared to other equine disciplines tend to have lower care of their tack  - In the UK anyway. But the work does need doing the panels need flocking, and if they are split and cracked the leather will need replacing too (replace the whole panel). This is an expensive procedure which is why they are reluctant to have the work done. But the main consideration is safety to the rider and comfort of the horse/pony. 

Why do you think there is a need for saddle fitters if one size fits all? Or any old saddle will do. It's like anything in life maintenance is the key. 

Hope  this helps

Jcuk

 

 

Edited March 3, 2019 by jcuk

[Silverd]

Hi Jcuk

Appreciate your candor.  In the tack room at this ranch hang hundreds of examples of tack in a range of condition.  The saddles however are the best example of neglect and in your words, questionable safety and certainly questionable creature comfort I suspect.  I'm not ready to take on panel replacement with my limited experience at this point and she's not willing to pay for a qualified saddler for the reasons you state.  It's dissapointing to me to witness a pro level owner, manager display such a high level of disrespect for the tools of her trade and to the students of this community not to mention the animals.  

I'm waiting for a shipment from Abbey England that should include the big head pommel nails.  I need to replace one on the Argentina saddle, then pop stitch it all back.  ...Then I'll take on the Stubbed repair.  One thing at a time. 

Photo of the Argentine saddle and the repaired knee insert sewn back on the flap using my 441 (clone).  

 

Silverd

Edited March 5, 2019 by Silverd
Photo

[jcuk]

Hi there

Did you manage to hit the previous stitch marks on the saddle flap using your machine? if so well done! I ask because the owner of the Stubben may expect this i did a similar repair  a while back, yes it was an older Stubben too so to use the same stitch marks i just did it by hand.

On the other subject riding schools live on their good safety reputation,  poorly maintained tack i hate to say,  is an accident waiting  to happen.

When i finished my training (you never really do something new crops up and you learn something new every now and then) i always say to myself if i would not ride on it

i wouldn't send it out even if it means turning work down some tack is past the repairing safely stage you just have to say no because then it is your reputation on the line. 

 

Hope this helps

JCUK