Singer 29K70 questions

[Snakeoil]

Hi,

I'm new here and just bought this 29K70 from a friend who had to close his business due to health reasons. He was using it right up until the end so it was working. We stitched a piece of leather in his shop as he walked me thru threading and operation. I spent the entire day yesterday, cleaning and stripping off the cheapo black spray paint that some rebuilder/reseller put on the machine 40 years ago. Underneath was the baked on black enamel that Singer put on back in 1939 when it was built. It has custom made tower that goes on the bottom stand to make working while standing easy. It has also been modified with an electric drive motor that looks like the motor Singer sold to upgrade old household treadle machines.

While going over the machine yesterday and going thru the original operating manual, I noticed that there are a few parts missing. I'm curious how vital they are since the machine seems to sew fine as it is. The missing parts are:

Thread take-up adjusting screw and lock nut, Part # SS337F and NN106J

Tension stud and nut for the check lever spring, Part # 418J and NN105J

Reading the manual, it says tha the Thread Take-up Adjusting Screw is adjusted at the factory and not to touch it. There is also a section in the back of the manual for technicians that tells how to adjust it. I have a parts manual I downloaded off the web and have been searching for the missing parts to no avail. My question is, are they key to proper operation. I believe that they maintain tension on the thread on the downstroke of the needle to keep the stitch tight. So, I can see why the machine sews okay. But the I might get a tighter stitch if I had these parts and they were adjusted correctly.

I am a machinist and have a lathe so I can make the missing parts if necessary. I found yesterday that Singer did not use SAE standard threads for fine pitch. But I can measure the pitch of the female thread in the Needle Bar Piston Joint and machine the lock nut and screw. A picture of those parts would be helpful in case there is something unique about them that is not visible in the parts diagrams. I'm thinking that the tip of the screw might be uniquely shaped.

The other part is the Tension Stud and Nut for the check lever spring. I read some articles on the evolution of the 29K machine and see that previous subclasses did not have the stud and nut, but just a screw holding the spring in place. That is how mine is configured. I'm wondering if the rebuilder put a used Needle Bar Driving Lever on the machine from an older subclass, and that Lever did not use the adjusting nut and stud that mine should have.

Here is a pic of the machine.

[Constabulary]

6 hours ago, Snakeoil said:

Tension stud and nut for the check lever spring, Part # 418J and NN105J

https://www.college-sewing.co.uk/418j-spring-stud-singer-29k.html

Below stud is NN105H instead of NN105J but I don´t think it makes a diffrence

https://www.college-sewing.co.uk/nn105h-113105-stud-nut-singer-29k.html
 

Quote

Thread take-up adjusting screw and lock nut, Part # SS337F and NN106J

 

Cannot find the two number but I think its the thread take up lever adjuster as it is missing in your picture

https://www.college-sewing.co.uk/82166-thread-take-up-adj-assy-singer-29k.html

If you figure your stitch length is rather short I´d order a Bell Crank Lever too.

https://www.college-sewing.co.uk/82167-feed-motion-bell-crank-lever-singer-29k-412818.html

 

Pretty sure you can get the parts maybe from Toledo Sewing Machines or Keystone Sewing or other industrial sewing machine dealers in the US.

Edited January 29, 2020 by Constabulary

[Snakeoil]

Thanks. The take-up lever adjuster photo on that side looks different than what I envision belongs on that piston. The piston has a much larger female thread. I may have to talk to one of the industrial parts suppliers to figure out what I have. Could be my suspicion of the piston or or needle bar driving lever being replaced with one from a different subclass could be the case here.

I will take a close-up of the piston thread and post it here in case someone can ID if I have the wrong part.

regards,

Rob

[Snakeoil]

Here is a photo of the piston. Note how large the female thread is. I did not put a caliper on it, but I'd say it is close to 3/8".

I made a padded Cordura case today to tote a small flat screen TV. The thread tension was fine. I'm getting the feeling that I might not need that adjuster and lock nut. Might not need the tensioner, either. But I'm totally new to this machine, so I'm very low on the learning curve.

regards,

Rob

[Constabulary]

Check the manual, I´m sure it describes the function of the adjuster better than I could explain.

However -  very early 29 patchers came entirely without the lever adjuster and being honest I tried this adjuster (mine is different one but still) a few times and I have never ever noticed a significant difference in stitches or the position of thread knots - really - never! I only alter the top thread tension and that's it. It may depends on the material (thickens & density) you sew. That does not mean it is useless but honestly yet I haven´t noticed any difference. Other may have different experiences but this is mine.

But when ever you will sell this machine - and this day will come - you still have an incomplete machine and a "knowing buyer" will notice this. So I would try to find this part just to have a complete machine.

Edited January 31, 2020 by Constabulary

[Snakeoil]

Thanks for the input. You having similar experience is helpful.

Yes, I agree that the missing part is important for resale. But a machine like this is something I'll probably die owning. My needs are for hobby and repair purposes. I need to find a picture of a 29K70 adjuster and lock nut. Then I can machine the part. Guess I'll mine the internet for photos unless somebody here has a picture. And of course, I'm still not sure that the lever is from a 29K70.

[Constabulary]

you can also buy the slide piece new - from my experience they all have the same diameter - then its safe that the thread lever adjuster thread will fit.

https://www.college-sewing.co.uk/82231-piston-joint-singer-29k-71.html

 

 

Edited January 31, 2020 by Constabulary

[Moberer]

I have a singer patching machine and I cannot find what year it is. The model # is 11836685. Anyone?

[Constabulary]

32 minutes ago, Moberer said:

I have a singer patching machine and I cannot find what year it is. The model # is 11836685. Anyone?

This is a very early Model 29 - not 29K the number is the serial number. You can check the date here:

http://ismacs.net/singer_sewing_machine_company/serial-numbers/singer-no-prefix-serial-numbers.html

Looks like 1893 made

Edited January 31, 2020 by Constabulary

[Snakeoil]

That driver arm is not open in the back where the piston mounts. So, my arm is not that arm. I spent a good chuck of the day on the machine. First order of business was mounting a light. I made the TV case with no light other than the overheads in the basement and being a black case, it was tough to see where the needle was relative to the material. Walmart sells these LED desk lamps for about $7.00 that work great. I have one mounted on my bench grinder. Picked one up and used it to make a lamp for the machine. An existing hole in the base made a perfect mounting point. Small right angle bracket from 1/8" aluminum and light looks like it could have come with the machine, if there were plastic, gooseneck LED lights back then. It's even black.

Then worked on the wood table. Because of the tower extension, someone screwed a piece of scrap, and I mean sCRAP  wood ot the original, albeit split leg. Plus, the cutout for the arm did not fit the arm correctly. The two tabs that lock into the base of the machine were about an inch or so away. Trimmed the cutout on the bandsaw and then made a new leg from 3/4" pine. The brace under the table was also broken and half was missing so made a new brace and screwed it in place. Table is now rock solid. Some of the veneer is damaged by the base of the machine. Might be a good rainy day project if I can find a source of veneer locally.

I'm going to reconnect the treadle. I think I will prefer using it as a treadle machine rather than electric. That small motor that really belongs on a household machine will run the machine, but it won't start it from still. I have to spin the wheel and then step on the pedal. Well, it will start it, but I'm sure that the amps are cooking the innards as it struggles to get it spinning. I have seen the clutch motors that are sold and if I find myself using this a lot, I may spring for one of those. But I think the treadle will serve me well.

[Snakeoil]

Did some more investigating, inspection and correction on the machine. First, the tension discs were a mix or one top and one side disc. Had spare top discs and fixed that. The leather washer that belongs under the bottom disc was also missing. Made one.

Drove the pin out of the piston and removed it and the check lever. Number on the piston 2231, indicates that it is from a 29K71. The correct piston for my machine is a 81860. The check lever is correct for my machine. The driving lever for both the 70 and 71 machines are the same 82220 (typo on 29K70 parts diagram. Shows it as 8222C, but parts list shows 82220). I tried to find the number on the driving lever, but suspect it is on one of the non-painted surfaces, probably where the Joint Pin goes so I'm going to assume for now it is correct for my machine. The threaded area for the check lever tension stud is counterbored, which indicates to me it was intended for a stud and not a screw since the spring covers the counterbore.

My options are to get a new piston assembly for my machine or the missing parts for the piston I have. I could make them, but the diagram detail is bad.  So,  I know how many parts there are and can guess based upon how I think it should work how each is configured. But would be just that, an somewhat educated guess.

I'll try the parts outfits for those part numbers to see if they have them, or at least photos of them.

regards,

 Rob

[Snakeoil]

Well, it turns out that a good chunk of the answer to my question was in a later issue of a 29K operation manual that came with the machine. It is so soaked with oil that the pages are all translucent. I actually was looking at it because I was looking for thread size limitations. Back page had a great diagram showing the adjuster on the end of the piston. Armed with that I was able to watch the lever move and can see what the parts need to look like to allow adjustment of the lever travel. I can also see how the adjustment can alter the tightness of the stitch as well as the centering of the lock. I'll post pictures of the part when I get around to making them.

The tensioner on the side of the machine for darning was missing. I did find one of the discs installed in the top tensioner as mentioned before. I cannot get a thread gauge into the tapped hole in the machine head to measure the pitch. But comparing it visually with my thread gauges, I came to the conclusion it is either and 8-36 or 10-36 thread. Well, it appears it was an 8-36 and some ham fisted rebuilder or previous owner stripped the thread in the head. I machined a 10-36 thread and it would not fit. The 8-36 fit and then stripped with minor finger pressure twisting the screw. So, I'll probably just tap it for 10-32 and make a new stud for the tensioner that fits.

I did some practice sewing to check my stitch quality and pitch. Set at 5 SPI, I get about an 8 to 8.5 SPI. I feel play in the bell crank so I need to replace it or repair it. It's not obvious how the internals come out of the sewing head. I see a couple of screws that probably hold everything in place. But I need to study it a bit before taking it apart and watching it barf the internals all over the floor. Actually, I'm a white towel guy and that will get laid on the table before anything is removed. If anyone know of a tutorial on how the head comes apart, that would be helpful. I'm going to search the web for info. I may just weld up the worn area of the bell crank and reshape it to restore the max thread pitch capability.

I did figure out a way to revive the treadle to see if I liked it. I had miles of oxygen tubing left over from my Mom who died of cancer 30 years ago. It's quarter inch clear plastic tubing. It is not too stretchy and figured it would do for a test run. Fit a piece to my machine, which requires 7'-6" of belt due to the tower extension, and used a piece of plastic covered cable (from the dog's run) as a coupler. Works the nuts. Really prefer the treadle over the wimpy electric motor. Speed is perfect for a newbie like me and the control is excellent. So, if anyone needs a new treadle belt for a 29K machine, go to your local hardware store and buy some 1/4 plastic tubing (19 cents/foot locally) and make yourself a new belt. Bet it will last a lifetime.