ENTRY LEVEL LEATHER SEWING MACHINE AND WHAT THE HECK IS MEDIUM DENISTY LEATHER

[MikeF]

I am staring at a project I need to ship by Friday...I am looking at better than 21 feet of hand stitching that has to be done, as well as some other assembly work, in order for that to happen...so, as happens every time I get to this place in a project like this (yes...I have hand stitched that much and more, more times than I care to remember in the last 15 years)...I stop work and start shopping for a powered stitcher...it is my go to procrastination move. Toledo, Springfield, Weaver, Cobra, Sailrite, Craiglist, Ebay, Senior Times, Home Depot...and on and on...I haunt them all.

I know you guys get tired of hearing this question I'm about to ask...so let me say this...I am among the smallest of the small businesses...but I have a market and it seems to be growing.  I am terrible at pricing my product (might explain the growing market) so much so, that my son laughingly (seven rolling on the floor, laughing, crying emojis level laughingly) calculated that I am going to make about 64 cents an hour on this project...he suggested I move to Vietnam and make tennis shoes with the rest of the kids...I would make more money.  What I'm saying is, I have yet to make enough, or even forecast that I will make enough to invest in machinery from business proceeds alone...it always comes down to "owner's capital", which means money out of my fixed retirement income...So here's the question:

What is, in the collective experience, the best all around, does-most-everything-in-a-one-man-band affordable from the perspective of a small guy, doesn't need a forklift to offload LEATHER STITCHER for a  small but hardworking shop.  I need to stitch, 90 percent of the time, two pieces of 9-10 oz veg tan together...in my wildest imagination, I might need to add a 4-5 oz spacer piece, less than 1% of the time, and less than that, I might need to wrap that edge (sans spacer) with some bias tape (probably total of 4 oz thick).  I'd love to be able to go up to 207 thread, and whatever needle system that takes...would love to be able to mount a roller foot and do some pretty straight forward inlay, from time to time...that's gonna leave about 8 or 7 percent of the time I might have to do something my imaginary machine can't handle...and I'd be happy to hand stitch THAT.

So, I have a little money to buy a machine..but I had money 15 years ago too, when I spent $1500 on this really underwhelming unicorn of a do-everything machine, that actually doesn't do a very good job even on wallet liners...much less anything I'm doing now...unfortunately, I fell prey to a very very good salesperson in my ignorance back then.  Suffice it to say, I have a real mental block when it comes to pulling the trigger on a machine. And, I don't have that much money (hence the lurking around Craigslist, Ebay, Senior Times, and Home Depot, after concluding I can't afford anything new from the dealers). 

If anyone has the magic answer I would be deeply indebted...if no magic answer, can someone (maybe one of the machine makers) please tell me what "medium density" leather is...seems all the machines in my price range are only capable of stitching up to "medium density" leather...does that mean 20 ounces of Herman Oak Veg Tan, tooled, dyed, and finished?

Maybe this question is already out there...if so I apologize, I have not seen the thread that answers this specific question, best all around entry level least expensive machine that does most of what advanced hobbiest and side hustle small business could afford, without attacting the attention of the wife.

Thanks for reading through this windy missive.

r/

Mike

[Wizcrafts]

6 hours ago, MikeF said:

If anyone has the magic answer I would be deeply indebted...if no magic answer, can someone (maybe one of the machine makers) please tell me what "medium density" leather is...seems all the machines in my price range are only capable of stitching up to "medium density" leather...does that mean 20 ounces of Herman Oak Veg Tan, tooled, dyed, and finished?

Twenty ounces of Herman Oak carved, dyed and finished is probably on the hard density end, just not the hardest. What I consider medium density would be apron suede, or biker's chap sides, or perhaps saddlebag leather. I have had some bridle leather that was very easy to sew, while other cuts were tougher. Sometimes there are remnants of rawhide along the backbones on sides and double bends. Rawhide itself has a hard density. Garment leather has a soft density.

The real test of density has to be determined by testing a sewing machine with the largest size thread and needle combination it can handle. If the foot pressure spring can't hold down the leather as the needle and thread come up out of the top side,  or if the knots can't be pulled inside the layers and completely hidden on both sides, it is insufficient for that kind of sewing and the density of the leather.

I hope this explanation helps a little.

Important facts:

1. There is a HUGE difference in the foot pressure to hold down between 5/16 and 3/8 inches of veg-tan leather versus 8 to 10 ounces of the same type of leather.
2. There is a big difference in the amount of top tensioner spring tension needed to pull knots up inside 24 ounces vs 10 ounces with thread sizes 138 and up.
3. For a given machine to happily sew 20+ ounces of veg-tan with #207, or #277 bonded thread, it must have really strong springs and very beefy crank shafts, take-up lever and bearings on load bearing parts.
4. In order to penetrate 20+ ounces of veg-tan leather will also require a very high motor to machine pulley ratio, possibly involving a speed reducer between the motor and balance wheel.

The feeling I get from your inquiry is that you intend to sew finished, medium hard to hard density leather stacks easily reaching and probably exceeding 20 ounces. This is the high end of the typical sewing capacity of upholstery grade machines. They are not built with such usage in mind. Upholstery leather is relatively soft at the thicknesses usually encountered in making seat and sofa covers, or carrying bags. I therefore recommend that you take a serious look at the Cowboy CB3200, as it won't be over-stressed sewing 24 ounces of veg-tan with #277 thread, using a #25 leather point needle. This thread is a good match for 3/8 inch of leather, having 44 pounds of breaking strength per locked stitch. 

If you end up having to sew jobs under about 6 - 8 ounces, search for a used upholstery grade walking foot machine. Upholstery shops often sell off old walking foot machines when the buy new ones, or downsize. These machines can sew from a few ounces to almost 3/8 of an inch, but only with up to #138 bonded thread, which only has 22 pounds test.

I wrote an extensive article, pinned near the top of this forum, describing the type of sewing machine you need to sew leather. It makes a good read and may help you choose a most suitable machine.

Note, we have a section here called the Marketplace, which has a section where people can sell their used, or rebuilt sewing machines to other members. You should peruse that section to see if anybody in your area of the World might have a suitable machine for sale at a price you can afford.

[MikeF]

Thank you Wizcrafts...that was among the most comprehensive and informative answers I've ever received, on/in any forum.  I'll find that pinned topic and go through that soon as I finish this project...seems I underestimated the stitching...it's not 21 feet...its more like a touch over 30 feet of hand stitching...and at about 4 foot an hour, I've got a long day ahead of me.

[stelmackr]

WOW! 7.5 hours of labor, just for the sewing.  At minimum wage ($19 in liberal state/cities) would be $142.50.  Not counting the doctors visits for tendon issues.  I wouldn't wish that job on anyone.  Good luck.

[MikeF]

Actually...efficiency  starts falling off after the first 4 or so hours so it actually took about 8.5 hours...lot of time to think up new questions and dream about machines though...I thought you were hanging up leather Bob.

So, one more related question...I appreciated the education on leather density...in selecting a machine then, for my projects, is there any such thing as a medium density veg tan tooling leather?  If so, where do you get it?

[stelmackr]

On 5/7/2020 at 10:19 AM, MikeF said:

<<<snip>>>...I thought you were hanging up leather Bob.<<<snip>>>

I keep getting talked back into it  ;-)

[Flatcapper]

I can attest to tendon issues from hand stitching everything. After 3 years of hand sewing everything from business card holders to steampunk masks, I’ve had to undergo 7 hand surgeries. Then add in months of hand therapy. I still love working with leather, however have slowed way down on my output because of the hand issues. I purchased a walking foot sewing machine last year, it was a clone of a Juki Dani-1181. Now the problem I quickly learned after shelling out $800 for this new machine that the seller on his sales video stated that it would sew leather all day “fast or slow no problem”. It came with a very nice servo motor and control box that was adjustable from 2-45. Sadly I found out that the slowest it would go is “5” and that was like trying to sew leather at 45 mph. Also only being a top/bottom feed machine, it was all wrong for what I was sewing. Most of the leather I sewing was two layers of veg-tan leather. Not only was it wrong speed but also the walking foot and feed dog chewed up the surface of the leather. So about the only thing this machine wound up being any good at sewing that I make is the all leather and wool/leather flat caps I make. So for when looking for a deal on a machine, take my advice and save your pennies and buy the machine that is going to sew the items that you make the most. The heavier the leather the higher the price. There is just no way around it Mikef. So with all this said, I just ordered a Thor go-1541s srg package. Perhaps what is perfect but it has to be a huge step up the sewing machine ladder. I wanted a techsew 2700pro but that was another $1000, which I just couldn’t talk my wife into. I plan to get a medium duty cylinder arm machine later down the line for doing the masks and beads that I make. Thinking of a New-tech go-8b. I like the 441 also but it’s way up in price and more machine then I need. Well good luck with the search Mikef, and try not to overuse those hand tendons as trigger finger and carpal tunnel is no fun.