Confusion regarding respirator masks (for solvent glue)

[Danne]

So I use Renia Syntic Total.

I start with answering the questions "Why don't you use water based glue instead?" I use water based contact cement for almost everything, except for nylon reinforcement. 

This glue have three solvents that require respiration protection.

Aceton, Ethyl Acetate, Xylene

So a regular A1-filter will not work because it's for solvent over 65c, and I sent the MSDS to 3M and asked what filter I should use, and they said 

6000-series AXP3-6098 filter, and it should be used with a full face mask. 

 

And this make me confused for two reasons.

1. I have checked and those filters fit half masks, but why did they recommend full face mask? Is it because glue is in liquid form and then full face masks are always recommended? (Of course I can't use a full face mask)

2. When I read the spec sheet for AXP3-6098 it say it protects against solvents with a boiling point below 65c (Acetone have a boiling point under 65c (56c) but both ethyl acetate and Xylene have a boiling point over 65c, can someone explain. Did I get wrong information from 3M or what am I missing?

Maybe someone here can help me answer these questions?

 

[chuck123wapati]

13 minutes ago, Danne said:

So I use Renia Syntic Total.

I start with answering the questions "Why don't you use water based glue instead?" I use water based contact cement for almost everything, except for nylon reinforcement. 

This glue have three solvents that require respiration protection.

Aceton, Ethyl Acetate, Xylene

So a regular A1-filter will not work because it's for solvent over 65c, and I sent the MSDS to 3M and asked what filter I should use, and they said 

6000-series AXP3-6098 filter, and it should be used with a full face mask. 

 

And this make me confused for two reasons.

1. I have checked and those filters fit half masks, but why did they recommend full face mask? Is it because glue is in liquid form and then full face masks are always recommended? (Of course I can't use a full face mask)

2. When I read the spec sheet for AXP3-6098 it say it protects against solvents with a boiling point below 65c (Acetone have a boiling point under 65c (56c) but both ethyl acetate and Xylene have a boiling point over 65c, can someone explain. Did I get wrong information from 3M or what am I missing?

Maybe someone here can help me answer these questions?

 

The boiling point is simply the point where a liquid becomes a vapor if I remember right and has nothing to do with boiling the chemical. And is why Acetone is used because it evaporates quickly. The respirator can protect you from all three  no matter the boiling point it protects you from the vapors. Full face shield  could be because the MSDS says it is an eye irritant or there is danger to your eyes if splashed. 

Personally i think you are over complicating things, you  have said you just do watchbands and  its just for a few minutes glue up time. If your glue can says use in a well ventilated area then ventilate your area don't hang over the work huffing it while the volatiles are evaporating and be done with it you will be safe.

 Here is an important part of the MSDS for Acetone that i pulled up.  "Personal Respirators (NIOSH Approved): If the exposure limit is exceeded and engineering controls are not feasible, a half-face organic vapor respirator may be worn for up to ten times the exposure limit, or the maximum use concentration specified by the appropriate regulatory agency or respirator supplier, whichever is lowest. A full-face piece organic vapor respirator may be worn up to 50 times the exposure limit, or the maximum use concentration specified by the appropriate regulatory agency or respirator supplier, whichever is lowest. For emergencies or instances where the exposure levels are not known, use a full-face piece positive-pressure, air-supplied respirator. WARNING: Air-purifying respirators do not protect workers in oxygen-deficient atmospheres."  The keys words are IF the exposure limit is exceeded and ...... .  They put acetone in nail polish and you don't see people donning respirators to paint thier nails lol. 

 

[chuck123wapati]

Here is what the msds i found says about the product you are using renia syntic total .   " With correct and proper use, and under normal conditions, breathing protection is not required. If technical exhaust or ventilation measures are not possible or insufficient , respiratory protection must be worn." again that is if your exposure is above the pel or personal exposure limits.

[Danne]

1 hour ago, chuck123wapati said:

Here is what the msds i found says about the product you are using renia syntic total .   " With correct and proper use, and under normal conditions, breathing protection is not required. If technical exhaust or ventilation measures are not possible or insufficient , respiratory protection must be worn." again that is if your exposure is above the pel or personal exposure limits.

Yes I saw that in Renias MSDS too.

"MSDS says it is an eye irritant or there is danger to your eyes if splashed" Yes that was my thought also, like if you use acetone in liquid form for cleaning, or maybe spraying a acetone based glue or other situations where you risk to get it in your eyes it's important with a full face mask. I open my window, put on the mask and glue what I need, close my glue jar, take off the mask and wash my hands. 

And I just checked the MSDS for my small bottle of acetone 99% acetone (The most common one used for nail polish remover) it says 

"use adequate respiratory protection in case of insufficient ventilation" and it doesn't smell strong, but my glue smell, but it also have two more solvents. 

But I still can't really figure out why that mask AXP3-6098 would be a better choice than my A1-filter.

My A1 filter is for solvents with a boiling point above 65c (and works for two of the solvents) and AXP3-6098 for solvents below 65c (acetone in this case) and when I use my A1-filter I can't smell anything with my glue bottle opened. And a very wild guess is that the difference is very small in this situation, especially because of the comment from renias MSDS. But I think you understand me, if I use a respirator mask, of course I want to use the best suited filter.

But I appreciate your input here, and everything you say make sense.

ps. I have tried three different solvent based glues from Renia, and two other brands. And this is the only one that works really good with nylon. At first I thought it didn't work because the bond was quite weak, but if I leave it for 1-2 days to cure the bond becomes really strong, and then I just glued it to a single piece of leather, when I use it on straps it's used at the fold and glued between two pieces of leather which of course will make it even stronger. And it's so easy to apply almost like water based glue, it's not stringy at all.

Edited August 24, 2020 by Danne

[chuck123wapati]

32 minutes ago, Danne said:

Yes I saw that in Renias MSDS too.

"MSDS says it is an eye irritant or there is danger to your eyes if splashed" Yes that was my thought also, like if you use acetone in liquid form for cleaning, or maybe spraying a acetone based glue or other situations where you risk to get it in your eyes it's important with a full face mask. I open my window, put on the mask and glue what I need, close my glue jar, take off the mask and wash my hands. 

And I just checked the MSDS for my small bottle of acetone 99% acetone (The most common one used for nail polish remover) it says 

"use adequate respiratory protection in case of insufficient ventilation" and it doesn't smell strong, but my glue smell, but it also have two more solvents. 

But I still can't really figure out why that mask AXP3-6098 would be a better choice than my A1-filter.

My A1 filter is for solvents with a boiling point above 65c (and works for two of the solvents) and AXP3-6098 for solvents below 65c (acetone in this case) and when I use my A1-filter I can't smell anything with my glue bottle opened. And a very wild guess is that the difference is very small in this situation, especially because of the comment from renias MSDS. But I think you understand me, if I use a respirator mask, of course I want to use the best suited filter.

But I appreciate your input here, and everything you say make sense.

ps. I have tried three different solvent based glues from Renia, and two other brands. And this is the only one that works really good with nylon. At first I thought it didn't work because the bond was quite weak, but if I leave it for 1-2 days to cure the bond becomes really strong, and then I just glued it to a single piece of leather, when I use it on straps it's used at the fold and glued between two pieces of leather which of course will make it even stronger. And it's so easy to apply almost like water based glue, it's not stringy at all.

Yup I understand. The difference is probably due to the acetone turning to a vapor or possibly a certain needed sorbent that the A-1 doesn't have.  Another thing when picking a respirator you need to pick the respirator that protects you from the worst of the chemicals so in this case would be Acetone and anyone responsible for selling you or picking  the right filter will pick that one no matter if there is only one drop of Acetone in the whole gallon/ liter  whatever.  You will note those are one use filters. Here is the info from 3m on their filters. https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/738488O/filters-for-reusable-respirators-selector.pdf I don't know if it will give you an answer or not but well worth reading. 

[Danne]

3 minutes ago, chuck123wapati said:

Yup I understand. The difference is probably due to the acetone turning to a vapor or possibly a certain needed sorbent that the A-1 doesn't have.  Another thing when picking a respirator you need to pick the respirator that protects you from the worst of the chemicals so in this case would be Acetone and anyone responsible for selling you or picking  the right filter will pick that one no matter if there is only one drop of Acetone in the whole gallon/ liter  whatever.  You will note those are one use filters. Here is the info from 3m on their filters. https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/738488O/filters-for-reusable-respirators-selector.pdf I don't know if it will give you an answer or not but well worth reading. 

Yes it make sense. I have always thought that Xylene is way more toxic. 

But I then think it's the correct filter 3M recommended me (AXP3-6098) And I will go for that filter and attach it to a half mask, and also solve exhaust for the winter. It's not only because it's toxic, it also smell a lot in my apartment if I don't have my window open, which is not a solution I like in the winter here  

Now the only problem, finding someone who sell it. Out of stock everywhere.