1/4 Head Knife

[Chris623]

I'm a newbie here.  Probably don't really need a head knife at this point in the game, but as a knife maker I've been drawn to the 1/4 Head Knives I've seen pictures of.  I plan on using a brand new 14" cross-cut saw blade I have (but will never use) that I think will serve as a good material source.  I obviously need some "learnin" on the subject of these knives.   I "get" the purpose of a full round knife but am not quite sure the way the 1/4 knife would be used.  Pretty much the same way, I suppose. ??????  But what is the advantage/disadvantage of the 1/4 Head Knife? 

Attached is a picture of one I'd like to emulate, but I'm wondering if there are any patterns for them out there or should I just print this to the size I'm wanting and use that as a template?

 

 

[Hardrada]

If that's the Chartermade knife you have as a model there, be aware that it's patented, so make sure to modify your own design so that it doesn't look the same.

[zuludog]

The naming of these sort of knives is a bit confusing. I've always known the full leather knife with two points as a round knife, and the type with one point as a head knife; plus there are a few variations such as a French style leather knife, Chartermade, and so on. If you're making a one - off for yourself you can make it to suit yourself

The round knife is well established, but it takes some practice & experience to use it well. A head knife is easier to use, and cheaper if you are buying one. However, they will both do the same job. As for the other shapes, it's just what you fancy, and think you will be able to use

Search YouTube for making a round knife...........a head knife.............a leather knife, and there are several videos

There are also several videos on using & sharpening these sorts of knives; pretty much the same sort of techniques, even though there are variations in the shape of the blade

Have a look at videos by JH Leather; she uses a head knife for most of her work, even though the shape is a bit different to the one you are planning

Just one thing - modern circular saw blades often have a relatively soft central part, with only the teeth and the rim made from harder steel, so check what you have before you make it. If that's the case you could still make something like a skiving knife or a Japanese style leather knife

Edited September 18, 2020 by zuludog

[Chris623]

5 hours ago, Hardrada said:

If that's the Chartermade knife you have as a model there, be aware that it's patented, so make sure to modify your own design so that it doesn't look the same.

Not Chartermade.  It's a custom knife.................and I wouldn't copy it exactly anyway.  But thanks for mentioning that point.  Ticks me off, but some people don't respect patents and copy-writes.

 

3 hours ago, zuludog said:

Just one thing - modern circular saw blades often have a relatively soft central part, with only the teeth and the rim made from harder steel, so check what you have before you make it. If that's the case you could still make something like a skiving knife or a Japanese style leather knife

Lots of good info in your post...........thanks.  Trying hard to learn all this stuff.  I'll ask my saw sharpening shop what material it is.  If it's not something useful, I'll just buy some proper material.  I have a Paragon oven, so tempering and annealing are no problem.

[Chris623]

After going through the long list of Youtube videos about head knives, I found the knife I showed is one of Leather Wranglers knives.  So if I do make one, I'll be very careful to not duplicate it but simply use it as a guide.  I think it's a beautifully designed and made knife.

Edited September 18, 2020 by Chris623

[chuck123wapati]

19 minutes ago, Chris623 said:

Not Chartermade.  It's a custom knife.................and I wouldn't copy it exactly anyway.  But thanks for mentioning that point.  Ticks me off, but some people don't respect patents and copy-writes.

 

Lots of good info in your post...........thanks.  Trying hard to learn all this stuff.  I'll ask my saw sharpening shop what material it is.  If it's not something useful, I'll just buy some proper material.  I have a Paragon oven, so tempering and annealing are no problem.

I respect all laws and personal designs, even unpatented, however.  i didn't see any patent info on their site and I don't think you can patent a knife blade shape that has been in existence for years before he made it, it would be like trying to patent the shape of a tee shirt. But either way if you don't resell it no problem. Zulu is right using an unknown steel could  be  a waste of time for you. there are some checks  you can do on steels by watching the sparks, using a hardness tester, or try drilling it. Just keep in mind if you over heat it you will lose the original hardness then you will have to guess at the temps needed to get the proper temper back.  I have made a round knife from a saw blade years ago as well i use 1095 high carbon for all my blades great steel and easy to work with. Good luck and don't forget to show us the outcome.

[Chris623]

Thanks for the input.  As I mentioned, I'll research the material in the blade before I try anything with it.  I absolutely don't "do" mystery steel in my knife making process.  If I can't I.D. the blade material (I'll check with the manufacturer if necessary) I'll just start with good blade stock.

[Chris623]

Does anyone have any thoughts on what bevel to use on a head knife?  I know Leather Wranglers offers a full distal taper (like a fine chef's knife) and a shorter, steeper sunburst grind like a rugged camp knife. 

[zuludog]

30 minutes ago, Chris623 said:

Does anyone have any thoughts on what bevel to use on a head knife?  I know Leather Wranglers offers a full distal taper (like a fine chef's knife) and a shorter, steeper sunburst grind like a rugged camp knife. 

I can't give you any technical specs, but I'd say go for a long, low angled gradual taper or bevel, without any noticeable step or shoulder

Edited September 18, 2020 by zuludog

[Chris623]

Kind of what I thought, Zuludog.  Thanks.  Never having used one of these knives, I didn't know for sure.  Wish I could afford to just order one of Leather Wrangler's knives..............they are beautiful.  But I know I can make one..........it's what I do.

[zuludog]

Have a look at these YT videos and you'll see the sort of thing I mean -

How to hold and use a Round Knife by UK Saddlery

How to polish a Leather Round Knife by Leathercraft Masterclass

How to sharpen your Head Knife for Leather Work by J H Leather

Also have a look on Vergez - Blanchard and George Barnsley and Sons' websites. But note that as a traditional manufacturer Barnsley only give you a basic cutting edge and you are expected to do the final sharpening & polishing yourself as that keeps the cost down, and you can adjust it to suit yourself 

I have a Barnsley Head Knife and it does take a while to do that, but once you've got the edge right, it's excellent

To add a bit of interest you can compare UK Saddlery's Scottish/Glaswegian accent with J H Leather's middle class English accent

Edited September 18, 2020 by zuludog

[Chris623]

I teach a wood carving class at one of our local Vo-Tech schools.  I make and sell wood carving knives.  Sharpening knives is something I do for a living, so doubt I'll have any trouble making and sharpening a Round Knife.  I don't know of any commercial blade manufacturer who ships a blade sharp enough to use, so I'm used to that.

With all that braggart stuff behind , I'll look at any video I can watch to learn as much as I can.  Thanks for the suggestions.

[zuludog]

I've wondered if a large wood carving knife could be used or modified for fine leather cutting

And you shouldn't have much difficulty making a skiving knife; an English style leather paring knife; a kiridashi; or a Japanese style leather knife; some of them are similar anyway - as if you didn't have enough to do!

And have a look at Vergez - Blanchard's L'indispensible knife, both on their website and YT; you could probably make something similar, but with a fixed instead of an interchangeable blade

I made a Japanese style leather knife from an old box plane blade, and once you've got used to the asymmetric/offset blade it's easy enough to use; look for those on YT as well     

[chuck123wapati]

1 hour ago, Chris623 said:

Does anyone have any thoughts on what bevel to use on a head knife?  I know Leather Wranglers offers a full distal taper (like a fine chef's knife) and a shorter, steeper sunburst grind like a rugged camp knife. 

i would use a flat grind or at least a partial flat grind of at the least 3/4 inch from the edge. a full distal taper , tapered from tip to haft and spine to edge will be basically just a full flat grind as the handle and blade are shaped differently than a regular knife but it sure sounds cool lol. Round knives rarely cut over 1/4 inch thick materials so what you do past that point doesn't mean much not so with knives built for other purposes. Here is a nice skiver i made a while back chisel grind for right hand use. I find myself making more tools than leather projects if I'm not careful lol.

Edited September 18, 2020 by chuck123wapati

[Chris623]

That's a beautiful skiving tool, Chuck.  I like the file work.  I'd have to make a jig to allow the blade to pivot from the point where the handle starts so I could present it to my 2x72 belt grinder to get a full distal taper all the way around the radius.  Would pose it's own difficulties.

[chuck123wapati]

13 minutes ago, Chris623 said:

That's a beautiful skiving tool, Chuck.  I like the file work.  I'd have to make a jig to allow the blade to pivot from the point where the handle starts so I could present it to my 2x72 belt grinder to get a full distal taper all the way around the radius.  Would pose it's own difficulties.

thanks! yes it would, but you will want a long gradual taper anyway no matter how far up the blade you carry it so chalk it up to a good piece to practice on. Knowledge gained is never a waste of time.