Affordable press for buttons?

[ButtonLady]

• "Line" (originally "ligne") refers to the cap diameter.  It's an old unit of measurement:  40 lignes = 1 inch.  Some modern button manufacturers use "#" instead of "L" but it's all the same:

•  20L / 1/2" [12.5mm] and 24L / 5/8" [15mm] is a size common to ring spring snaps, sometimes called "industrial" or "durable".  The ring (a literal wire ring) is inside the cap and provides the gripping action for this type of snap.  Segma snaps have an entirely different gripping action.

•  Setting machines are just specialized arbor presses.  As long as everything lines up and the machine is solid, you're in good shape.  Definitely consider the DIES, though.  Different machines accept different die shanks.  The two most common are M8/19mm and 3/8".  Most foreign die shanks are M8/19mm; most US die shanks are 3/8" —they are NOT interchangeable.  M8/19mm shank dies tend to be cheaper; 3/8" shanks can be more versatile (top and bottom dies can be switched around).

•  At this point, you should be considering the types of snaps you plan to set, now and in the future.  Select a machine that accommodates the kinds of dies you need (or will need), and be very mindful of the shank size.

Edited January 8, 2021 by ButtonLady
Added some measurements.

[Loudcherokee]

25 minutes ago, ButtonLady said:

• "Line" (originally "ligne") refers to the cap diameter.  It's an old unit of measurement:  40 lignes = 1 inch.  Some modern button manufacturers use "#" instead of "L" but it's all the same:

•  20L / 1/2" [12.5mm] and 24L / 5/8" [15mm] is a size common to ring spring snaps, sometimes called "industrial" or "durable".  The ring (a literal wire ring) is inside the cap and provides the gripping action for this type of snap.  Segma snaps have an entirely different gripping action.

•  Setting machines are just specialized arbor presses.  As long as everything lines up and the machine is solid, you're in good shape.  Definitely consider the DIES, though.  Different machines accept different die shanks.  The two most common are M8/19mm and 3/8".  Most foreign die shanks are M8/19mm; most US die shanks are 3/8" —they are NOT interchangeable.  M8/19mm shank dies tend to be cheaper; 3/8" shanks can be more versatile (top and bottom dies can be switched around).

•  At this point, you should be considering the types of snaps you plan to set, now and in the future.  Select a machine that accommodates the kinds of dies you need (or will need), and be very mindful of the shank size.

Wow! Thats alot of info! Thank you for taking the time to explain all that. 

The press i ordered has M8 threads for the dies, so when looking for the button type snap dies ( like what would be used on a holster) I'll make sure to look for that thread size. 

I had originally thought the line 24 just had a longer post than the line 20 due to Tandy website listing the 24 for 8/9 ounce leather and the 20 for 4/5 ounce. Good to know its an actual diameter measurement. 

If I get rolling with this and can justify one of the nice Master Tools machines later on, I'll look into that but for now I'm ok using the cheaper stuff from Ebay and Amazon. 

LC

[Loudcherokee]

2 hours ago, ryano said:

Those dies look pretty odd to me, especially the one with the retaining spring. I saw where a metric conversion converted the outside 24 line snap as 15mm, but did not show conversions of the 2 interlocking pieces, so I would be afraid to try them. Also beware of plastic die listings, they will surely fail. Used dies get listed, on ebay, one in awhile under United Carr.

Here is a set of 24 line snap dies that look correct and is only 25% of the usual price of 100 bucks, as you can see look a little different than the ones you posted the link for.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/DIE-SET-FOR-HEAVY-DUTY-MIGHTY-SNAP-SIZE-24-5-8-FREE-SHIPPING-USA/264745077024?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item3da4094920:g:UGoAAOSwO9ZezpAq&amdata=enc%3AAQAFAAACcBaobrjLl8XobRIiIML1V4Imu%2Fn%2BzU5L90Z278x5ickkXKoKcbeZcOrOku%2BoOBl%2BSxuMciqcoA0WrBomRi4LsqlaDIcA9UrZpXteVa%2FizpLLQVGAyGgtCq0MIjZG2M%2FHVhM5K1BMRvvrqaBHqeXdKK7vx5yRw%2By2zbJ2dze1m8ERco8CkyjdywrXZ23y%2FKFWFIPPsxzn%2FEB80PhQTTDT4DlA8ZWAXQcDRYJNkpZlZMY%2Bd%2FpdRuYJpL8NHrBKVTm%2FR5CFIS70Np6Ovu6qfkkJXLEt2sxJRvbYZhUARJLt2Rz1ZGe3kGjPUzGhtkuBt0U6lOBYteXnZLmzKmq6TmuZ5qJEkQMeW%2FtcBVzvZExeRSMMnEpzsEqUiMJb3gqp5PnJduMoYaHO7MrdSRYRftUS46Ig%2FVmydVbCrFRy%2BA8YBvmsruVTC967c16yHdhvkvHMRkg81hboAcmMAdeDx%2FHqQRNTxKbcB7tGP8wL%2F8l1HwpN5wa0Zvmmk%2BD12xFASnyeHPbNEAqmbd1ltwvjjBLRkt0BFt1DyLxrvmIautl0NjdQwvUXBxU9wl%2FrupPh5ZhI7cSJhaSsCPHy5cBHj4gUmaAC4VGTR9X1q58L4SQz13tGMwt1CvbwgZLrCzRyVUwiFsdAiEJdokkTg8oqnswBmYsk18toKb2v7%2BdS0DqGJzFDh3f5DSR9ehuxyStyYGEysMpYc3wKzOkRqbcvjlY222hXuXAsI9E60moevMPQeUKFLJOQ7hrnzxvfpx4wEmZMHiXVkrI6D5P974ev1rlQnsQYG5eMcEByfPrwEqpXB4aR%2B2jycdIGjkjO6p9j1Zu9yQ%3D%3D|cksum%3A264745077024581f3c6bb92c47c1a7c046fa6f069d7a|ampid%3APL_CLK|clp%3A2334524

I sent them a message asking what the thread size is on the dies, and if they will work with Pull the Dot snaps. 

Thanks for finding that!

LC

[ButtonLady]

2 hours ago, Loudcherokee said:

I had originally thought the line 24 just had a longer post than the line 20 due to Tandy website listing the 24 for 8/9 ounce leather and the 20 for 4/5 ounce. Good to know its an actual diameter measurement. 

The 24L post is actually longer (and wider) than 20L, but that's because it's proportionally larger all over.

 

2 hours ago, Loudcherokee said:

If I get rolling with this and can justify one of the nice Master Tools machines later on, I'll look into that but for now I'm ok using the cheaper stuff from Ebay and Amazon.

Be aware that Master Tool shanks are 3/8" (and will not fit the M8/19mm machines you're looking at now).

 

2 hours ago, Loudcherokee said:

I sent them a message asking what the thread size is on the dies, and if they will work with Pull the Dot snaps. 

One-way snaps require a specialized die that accommodate the socket tab.  These dies are not available with a M8/19mm shank, at least I've never heard of one —I'd be very, very surprised if a stock (non-custom) version exists!  If you're planning to use one-way snaps eventually, you might be better off investing in a 3/8" machine from the beginning... and a one-way snap die eventually.  I believe Fasnap and Scovill (DOT) are the only non-custom manufacturers of one-way snap dies for machines (possibly also Rome Fastener).  All three also make their own version of one-way snaps:

• Fasnap  http://fasteners.fasnap.com/viewitems/snap-fasteners---screw-studs/one-way-pull-fasteners
• Scovill (DOT)  https://www.dotfasteners.com/shop-by-brand/pull-the-dot/
• Rome Fastener  https://www.romefast.com/One-Way-Snap-Fasteners.asp

I don't know if brand-specific snaps can be set in in other manufacturers' dies.  My guess is "most likely" but I don't know for absolute certain.

BIASED OPINIONS AHEAD:

I own a Fasnap machine, and Scovill (DOT) also makes a machine —both are excellent.  Both use 3/8" shank dies.  Neither machine is cheap, but they will outlive you.  Another option is purchasing a less expensive 3/8" machine and saving up for dies you really want:

• Very Baby  https://www.verybaby.com/collections/diaper-sewing-notions/products/snap-press
• Tandy Craftool  https://tandyleather.com/products/craftool-hand-press?_pos=5&_sid=127bba072&_ss=r

 

2 hours ago, Loudcherokee said:

Wow! Thats alot of info! Thank you for taking the time to explain all that. 

You're very welcome!

Edited January 8, 2021 by ButtonLady
Fixed some formatting.

[ButtonLady]

FYI... Here are three types of snaps commonly used in leatherwork:

 

Round Spring (Ring Spring, Industrial, Standard, Durable [24L], Baby [20L])

 

Parallel Spring

 

Segmented Spring (Segma)

[Loudcherokee]

40 minutes ago, ButtonLady said:

FYI... Here are three types of snaps commonly used in leatherwork:

 

Round Spring (Ring Spring, Industrial, Standard, Durable [24L], Baby [20L])

 

Parallel Spring

 

Segmented Spring (Segma)

Thanks again for the info! The snaps i have currently are parallel spring i think. 

The ebay seller got back to me and said they are unsure of the thread size on the dies. They appear to be similar to the other Chinese dies that I'm finding so maybe they will work with other round spring snaps. 

I will check out those machines you posted. Thank you!

LC

ETA - that machine from very baby looks just like one on Amazon that uses 1/4" shank dies. 

The craft tool looks nice, but ouch dies are $120 a set!

 

Edited January 8, 2021 by Loudcherokee

[ButtonLady]

17 minutes ago, Loudcherokee said:

ETA - that machine from very baby looks just like one on Amazon that uses 1/4" shank dies. 

I *think* the Amazon example is a M6/12mm machine.  Assuming I'm correct, this is not a very common size and (assuming I'm correct) Gold Star dies are compatible:  https://www.goldstartool.com

You would be limiting yourself to a very limited range of die types and sizes if you purchased this machine.  However, if it is a Gold Star clone, you can buy a 3/8" adapter kit for... $95.00 (!)

[ButtonLady]

On 1/8/2021 at 10:22 AM, ButtonLady said:

•  20L / 1/2" [12.5mm] and 24L / 5/8" [15mm] is a size common to ring spring snaps, sometimes called "industrial" or "durable".  The ring (a literal wire ring) is inside the cap SOCKET and provides the gripping action for this type of snap.

Oops... missed the edit window.  Snap springs are in the SOCKET, not the cap.  I need a vacation...