Seiko STW-8B (Consew 266R) - presser foot height and reverse issues

[michaelcbarr]

 

@Uwe

Well... we have good news and bad news !

The timing seemed to go OK - it was a bit out as you suspected - although not by much. 

Equalising the presser feet lift seemed to go OK too.

However, once I started trying to go through the steps to raise the overall height of the lifting presser foot - it all went wrong. I could not get the foot to adjust properly by following your steps and it just seemed to be jammed even when I loosened up every screw. Now the hand operated lift lever has never really worked well for me but I always used knee lift so it never bothered me too much. However,  I suspected the issues may be linked after watching your video and sure enough when I disassembled the presser foot bar assembly - the Thread Tension Release Guide came out in 2 pieces.

 

I ordered the new part you suggested - it looks quite a different shape to the one from my machine but I think it was the same with yours.

Hopefully this solves the issue - I assume the broken part was jammed somewhere in the presser foot bar assembly and was blocking it from raising properly?

Mb

[Uwe]

I think it’s better to know what’s broken than to get frustrated with a machine that’s not working properly without knowing why. Hopefully that new thread tension release slider will fit and your foot lift and clearance issues will be resolved. Perhaps this was why the machine was for sale in the first place. 

Kudos for getting all that disassembled, that was not a trivial task! On the plus side, it’ll give you the chance to give the disassembled parts a good cleaning and remove gunk from the works. It also is good to get to know your machine at that level and gain confidence in handling service and repair tasks yourself. 

Let us know if you run into trouble putting things back together. It takes some patience to line things up properly inside the tight space. It’s okay to just let it sit for a while if you get frustrated with it. Then try again.

Hopefully by the time you’re done you’ll feel good about the machine working the way it’s supposed to and having done the repair yourself.

[michaelcbarr]

7 hours ago, Uwe said:

I think it’s better to know what’s broken than to get frustrated with a machine that’s not working properly without knowing why. Hopefully that new thread tension release slider will fit and your foot lift and clearance issues will be resolved. Perhaps this was why the machine was for sale in the first place. 

Kudos for getting all that disassembled, that was not a trivial task! On the plus side, it’ll give you the chance to give the disassembled parts a good cleaning and remove gunk from the works. It also is good to get to know your machine at that level and gain confidence in handling service and repair tasks yourself. 

Let us know if you run into trouble putting things back together. It takes some patience to line things up properly inside the tight space. It’s okay to just let it sit for a while if you get frustrated with it. Then try again.

Hopefully by the time you’re done you’ll feel good about the machine working the way it’s supposed to and having done the repair yourself.

100% agree @Uwe and I really enjoyed seeing how everything actually works - once I got over the panic about not knowing what I'm doing :D

Your videos were, and will continue to be, invaluable.

Mb

[michaelcbarr]

Well we have some progress but still some frustrations :D

I fitted the new part for the tension release guide - which I had to "fettle" as it wasn't a perfect fit.  Also when I was reassembling I noticed burrs and uneven wear on the main presser foot bar and the piece which connects to the tension release (not sure of the name!) so I sanded with very fine grit and polished both for a better, smoother fit.

Once I retimed everything - the machine is sewing great again - attached photos of great looking stitches at different lengths through approx 8mm of double layer veg tan.

HOWEVER!!!  I still cannot get the presser foot up any higher than about 9mm. 

Photos attached show the presser foot at max lift using the lever - just fits 2 layers of veg tan. I can use the knee lift to enable an extra mm to slide the work piece in and out.

Last photo shows 3 layers of veg tan - approx 1/2 inch. This should be the max presser foot height but you can see it's miles off and even using the knee lift I could not squeeze the work piece in.

I went through the process several times to adjust the height but if I force the presser foot up to 1/2 inch then try to set everything else,  the vibrating foot does not seem to move freely through it's cycle and/or the needle bar bottoms out on the presser feet and the machine won't complete a full cycle.

I'm stumped again.

Two more things :

1. I still have to manually skew the vibrating foot to fit the needle through.

2. I fitted a servo motor and when punching through 2 layers of veg tan with a 22 needle and 207 thread it seems to jerk a bit then catch up when making the initial holes - maybe I need a speed reducer also to beef up the torque and slow it down?

 

Thanks again for your help everyone

Mb

 

[Wizcrafts]

5 hours ago, michaelcbarr said:

Last photo shows 3 layers of veg tan - approx 1/2 inch. This should be the max presser foot height but you can see it's miles off and even using the knee lift I could not squeeze the work piece in.

Are you aware that these upholstery class walking foot machines have an upper sewing limit of 3/8 inch? You may be able to "lift" the feet higher to get the work under the feet, but they need 1/8 inch minimum to alternate up and down. There is no way that machine will "sew" 1/2 inch without major alterations.

If the feet won't lift to 1/2 inch to remove material, the presser bar's lifting bits may be out of adjustment, or worn out.

If the needle bar hits the alternating foot when lifted with the foot or hand lifter, either the bar is too low, or the feet are set too high. A low needle bar could be the result of a previous owner lowering it for a shorter needle system.

[michaelcbarr]

Thanks for your reply @Wizcrafts!

Yes I know I am pushing this machine beyond its limits and I think I should admit defeat and settle for using the Seiko for its intended purpose - which is actually very impressive :D

However, the reason I have been confused about the capability of my machine is due to @Uwe's video of sewing similar thickness of veg tan leather - approx 10mm on a Consew 225. I understand this was just a test and the machine should not be used for this purpose on a regular basis, but in that video @Uwe was clearly able to lift the presser foot up to insert the material with room to spare and that's where I'm not sure if there is something else I need to adjust on my own machine.

The correct size needle was in the machine when I bought it and I think the bar is correct but honestly I am at the limit of my knowledge here.

I can force the lifting foot to 1/2 inch but then the vibrating foot is actually underneath the lifting foot for part of the cycle and the lifting foot does not come back flat to the throat plate when the lifting bar is released - so I know something is wrong and I would never try to sew. 

Mb

[Uwe]

That’s a VERY nice stitch line on your samples right there! Many people would be thrilled to manage just that. 

There’s chance that your front presser bar is simply bent. That might be the reason it will only lift so far; it may also explain the misaligned needle hole in the front. The best way to tell if a shaft is bent is to roll it on a flat surface, but you have to remove it for that - not easy. The second best way to check for a bend is to loosen the shaft clamps, remove the foot and rotate the shaft in place inside the machine. If the bottom of the shaft wobbles as you rotate it, then it’s bent. 

Often when you lift the feet by pressing down on the large lifting arm in the back with your hand, you’ll feel a hard stop with a sort of “clunk” when it reaches it limit of travel. If feels like it’s binding instead of reaching a hard stop, that’s a sign of trouble. If you can make the feet get stuck in the up position that’s definitely a sign that something is not right. 

When the feet are lifted, only the front foot will move as you turn the hand wheel, that’s normal. The rear foot only moves if the front foot presses down against something.

There’s also some wiggle room in how you can adjust the linkage that provides the walking motion to the feet. If that movement of the linkage is not centered properly, it may touch something and bind as you lift the feet. Take off the head cover and observe the linkage as you lift the feet (I press down on the long lifting arm on the back with my hand for that purpose.) The linkage inside the head will move as you lift the feet. Watch for any touch points against the casting or other parts that may limit travel when it shouldn’t. Normally, when both feet are at the throat plate level, the linkage should be roughly in the position shown by the green arrows in the picture below.

 

[michaelcbarr]

Thanks @Uwe! I'm tempted to stop fiddling as it really is working beautifully on double layer veg tan now - but I'm still convinced there is something not quite right!

OK I checked the linkage as described above and its pretty much exactly on the green lines when all feet are level with the throat plate.

A bent vibrating presser bar does seem to make sense and would definitely explain the weird needle hole alignment as you suggested. Also, as I mentioned earlier, the lifting presser bar was not in a good state and I did some major polishing on it to try to even out some wear marks so it wouldn't surprise me if the other bar has been mistreated - or just worn out I suppose.

I can't seem to work out where the clamps are that hold the vibrating presser foot in place - so that I can try spinning it - I just see the large pressure spring and the the little oil access holes that are attached to the rest of the linkage.

Is it a really major job to take the entire bar out - and are there any manuals/video I can follow? Also are the parts available and affordable if It does need replaced?

Thanks again @Uwe - it has been great getting all this assistance :D

Mb