which stone?

[rawhide1]

Now that some gracious members have given me some know how on sharpening my splitter blade. I'm not sure what stone or stones to buy. Hell you've got Japanese, Arkansas,diamond, and probably a few others as well. And they all claim to be the best!! And grits from 300 to 8,000 that I saw. So my question is what would be the best stone for sharpening all my leather tools on. And what range of grit should a fella have. I reckon it would be nice to have 3 to 4 different grits but I'm not sure which. And where is a good source to buy from. So before I throw my hard earned money down I would like yawl's opinion and guidance.

Thank you in advance!!

Mike

[jawilliams]

Awsome question!!! To be honest I build and sharpen knives. The last step is using a stone. I use a Norton / India stone. Yes I also use it to put an edge and sharpen my leather cutting tools. I have one of each of the following. 400, 800, 1200 and 1600 or 2000 grit stones. I picked mine up a different garage sales. I couldn't tell you where to get them though. And the higher the number the finer the grit. They have worked for me very well

[tonyc1]

I've always used a Norton stone to sharpen my knives and they are great. The bloke who taught me to sharpen was a competing axeman and he said it was used on axes. Mine is a reddy colour one side and black on the other which is used for taking the feather off. Mine is half worn out but I was offered $400 for it last year as they are not sold out here anymore and this axeman wanted it. I make a few axe covers that act as a sheath over the year. I only threw the packet out a couple of years ago and I think it may have even said it was "Bear Brand Norton" Can't remember, "CRAFT" is setting in!

Tony.

[rawhide1]

jawilliams, and tonyc1

Hey thanks alot fellas. I think i'll watch ebay and see what comes up.

Mike

[Greywynd]

Stones....oh boy.

There are a LOT of different stones, and amongst those, even more different types. My knowledge is better on grinding wheels then stones, but there are a lot of overlaps too.

Let's see, where to begin.

Grit size. This also applies to sandpaper. Basically, the bigger the number, the finer the grit. Woodworkers, they are used to seeing 80, 150, 240, maybe 400 grit sandpaper at times. Stones can go as fine as 4000, 6000 and finer. Most of teh stone work I do is for polishing purposes, but since it's hardened (sometimes very hard) steel, I would usually go to about 600, maybe 1000 grit with stones, then I would go to a diamond compound beyond that.

For sharpening, at least as far as touch up stuff that would be the norm, I would suggest around a 6-800 grit, maybe 1000. You cold step up to a 2000, or if you can find one, something in between first. Beyond that, switch to rouge and strops, or other 'soft' material as a carrier for the compounds.

Fine, hard stones, a lot of times called Arkansas white, will often be finer than this, and are great for removing burrs and other touch up work.

Stone material. There are different materials used for stones. Aluminum oxide, carborundum, and others, even diamond can be used. Stones are a little different than grinding, as the heat buildup isn't as severe. When grinding, one wants the material to 'break down' exposing a new sharp cutting edge on the surface. If the grit gets rounded over, it no longer cuts, and causes extra heat buildup.

Bond. This is basically the 'glue' holding the grit together. Again, you want it to let go when a piece of grit gets dull, but not too easily, or it results in premature wear of the stone.

Another term, I can never remember the proper name, I'll call 'density'. If you think of a stone as a sponge, is it full of big holes, or all small ones? With stones, if you are using them wet (regardless if it's water, oil, whatever), you want some porosity to it to hold some of that fluid. Using them wet is a good idea, if you're removing a lot of material, the resulting slurry will help with the cutting action, and help to carry the cuttings and small fragments of stone away. Not enough, and the pores of the stone plug up, resulting in a poor cutting action.

Cheap stones...well, they sometimes can be just that. One of the biggest problems will be soft material, and poor bond. These will wear down quickly, and have a short lifespan.

Norton is a good name for grinding wheels and stones, most of the other stuff I'm familiar with is from industrial suppliers or diemaking supply places.

It's easy to find a variety of 'ways' to sharpen stuff, whether it be knives, leather tools, whatever. What works for one person, might not for the next. Same from one tool to the next. One tool might be a harder steel, and need one type of stone, another a softer steel and require a softer stone.

A couple tricks that may come in handy....if you need to shape a stone for a particular use, there are different ways it can be done. Stinky and dusty, a bench grinder or belt sander will shape some stones, but use caution, they can and will break, and also they can 'glaze' over, or plug up as well.

An old file will shape some stones, I tend to lay it flat on the bench and run teh stone along it. This takes teh edge off the file in a hurry, hence using an old one, and I always keep one old one around for that job.

Also, some stones you can use sandpaper to shape, again, lay it flat on a hard surface, and run the stone back and forth on it.

If anyone has any particular questions on stones, or are looking for suggestions how to sharpen a particular tool, just ask, I'll see what I can do.

[tonyc1]

I have reshaped my Norton twice. I have used a concrete block on it's side to do the job. Lay the block on it's side and then rubbed my stone on it 'til the high spots disappeared. If you have one of these red and black stones, the red side is for putting the edge on and the black side is for removing the "feather" that is left. I believe these stones should only be used with water or good old spit!

Tony.

[hidepounder]

I use 10" EZ Lap diamond stones. It's 800 grit screen on one side and 1200 grit screen on the other. I like them because they are mounted on ceramic and cut really fast. One or two passes are all it takes with the 1200. It would be very easy to waste a lot of blade with the diamond stones. I need to find a 2000 & 3000 grit stone for better polishing. When I finish honing I buff carefully with three different rouges to create a mirror finish. That being said, I like what Bree said she is doing, in the other thread, and am going to pursue that method also. I think it might be easier and the super fine papers are less expensive.

Bob

Edited January 13, 2009 by hidepounder

[rawhide1]

Greywynd, tonyc1, and hidepounder

Thank you all for your help and information. I figured as with everything else in life what works for one may not work for others. That's why it's so good to hear how everyone does it different. So if one way doesn't work for me I have other methods to try that may.

Wow Greywynd !!Thanks for all the information it cleared up some of the muddy water!!

Mike

[Bree]

Here is some different info for you to consider. Kind of interesting. This sharpening guy has an extensive website with microscopic photos showing you exactly what's going on with a sharp blade. He uses the flat plate (glass) and abrasives method. Pay particular attention to the "wire edge" and its removal. You have to click in on this site as there isn't a coherent navigation system. Make sure to find the Sharpening A-Z link and follow it.

http://www3.telus.net/BrentBeach/Sharpen/index.html

[Greywynd]

Bree, he has some interesting info on there. Most of my magnification work usually stopped at about 50x magnification, so some of this is rather interesting to me. (Though it may be overload to some!)

I'll have to take a look around for the razor blade that I ran a bead of weld along the cutting edge and see if I can get a picture......not that it's pertinent to the topic at hand, just a fun thing to demonstrate some small work.

[Bree]

Bree, he has some interesting info on there. Most of my magnification work usually stopped at about 50x magnification, so some of this is rather interesting to me. (Though it may be overload to some!)

I'll have to take a look around for the razor blade that I ran a bead of weld along the cutting edge and see if I can get a picture......not that it's pertinent to the topic at hand, just a fun thing to demonstrate some small work.

Yep. I knew when I saw it that that guy's website would tease up the curious mind. Give a guy a high powered microscope and there's just no telling what kind of damage he can do!!!

He is probably a great example of what you really ought to do. Now do we really do what we ought to do??? I don't THINK so!!

I am inveterate orbiter. I like to just slowly orbit my stones around the blade until I can feel that wire edge and then a little stropping to clean it up and the blade gets sent to work. Microbevels 2, 3, 4, etc are just more than I can or want to handle. So do as I say not as I do!! LOL!

[jbird]

thanks gang this was a great topic learned a lot going with the micro 3m

Josh

[Greywynd]

Yep. I knew when I saw it that that guy's website would tease up the curious mind. Give a guy a high powered microscope and there's just no telling what kind of damage he can do!!!

I found the scopes he talks about online for $100. Wish I had some play money! lol

Actually, I have a scope here already, but I think it only goes to about 50X magnification. If you have decent eyesight (corrected or not doesn't matter) even invest in a 5-10 dollar eye loupe, or maybe you have one of those bench mounted magnifiers? Even using those to look at your edges you will be surprised what you can see.

My last job everything was small enough that eye loupes were carried in our pockets, and sat on our benches. Even though I have excellent eyesight (at least for now) I doubt there was ever a day that I didn't reach for a loupe at least once a day.

Actually....some of those on here might enjoy a piece of rigging that we had available as well. The head mounted visors with magnifying glasses built in. Something like these... Visors (First find of a google search, no particular affiliation.)

I can see that the right set could be great for tooling, and reduce some of the eye strain from lots of close up/detailed leather work.

[Bree]

I found the scopes he talks about online for $100. Wish I had some play money! lol

Actually, I have a scope here already, but I think it only goes to about 50X magnification. If you have decent eyesight (corrected or not doesn't matter) even invest in a 5-10 dollar eye loupe, or maybe you have one of those bench mounted magnifiers? Even using those to look at your edges you will be surprised what you can see.

My last job everything was small enough that eye loupes were carried in our pockets, and sat on our benches. Even though I have excellent eyesight (at least for now) I doubt there was ever a day that I didn't reach for a loupe at least once a day.

Actually....some of those on here might enjoy a piece of rigging that we had available as well. The head mounted visors with magnifying glasses built in. Something like these... Visors (First find of a google search, no particular affiliation.)

I can see that the right set could be great for tooling, and reduce some of the eye strain from lots of close up/detailed leather work.

I have one of these that I got from the guy who comes to the leather shows. It was inexpensive and works great. Very comfortable and there are several magnifiers to choose from.

http://www.qedisit.com/techlights.htm

[rawhide1]

I want to think everybody again for their help.

I went ahead and ordered a course,medium, and fine Arkansas stone. I bought small ones(4"x2"x1"and 6"x2"x1") I figured they would be easier to hold and use. And also to see how I liked them before I spent a lot of money on the bigger ones. I also ordered a surface plate. I cant wait to start sharpening!!!

Mike

[Bree]

I want to think everybody again for their help.

I went ahead and ordered a course,medium, and fine Arkansas stone. I bought small ones(4"x2"x1"and 6"x2"x1") I figured they would be easier to hold and use. And also to see how I liked them before I spent a lot of money on the bigger ones. I also ordered a surface plate. I cant wait to start sharpening!!!

Mike

Don't forget some good quality wet-dry paper to take full advantage of that flat surface plate.

[Greywynd]

New surface plate....almost a new topic!

Now, I'm sure at this point you don't plan on using it for precision measurement, but I thought I'd mention a few things about these stones.

They are flat....and also stable. They will stay this way with relative ease and little maintenance. Surface plates have also been made in steel and cast iron over the years. Both of which can rust, and change due to temperature differences.

Basically, to look after these, don't abuse them (surface plates should never be hammered on!), and keep them clean. There are actual surface plate cleaners that are available, but almost any mild cleaner that doesn't leave a residue will work well. In a pinch I've also used rubbing alcohol.

If you're using them with abrasives, try to keep it off the surface of the stone, or clean it immediately after. To make these, they are lapped with an abrasive and another stone, so if abrasive is left on it, over time you can wear one are more than another, causing an out of flat condition.

When not it use, a cover to protect and keep it clean is a good idea too.

[rawhide1]

Bree

Thanks for reminding me!!

Greywynd

Thanks for the pointers although part of it probably wont stay a precision stone for long.lol As I'd planned on killing two birds with one rock. I had planned on using part of it to stamp on and also to use for sharpening. So maybe if I stay back 4 to 5 inches on one side I wont screw the whole thing up and that side will stay true. I just stamp small stuff belts,cellphone cases and maybe a purse or two. So maybe I wont hit it hard enough to damage it. I reckon since I've already bought it I might as well find out. I reckon the worst that can happen is I'm out 28.00 bucks.

Thanks again

Mike

[Greywynd]

Bree

Thanks for reminding me!!

Greywynd

Thanks for the pointers although part of it probably wont stay a precision stone for long.lol As I'd planned on killing two birds with one rock. I had planned on using part of it to stamp on and also to use for sharpening. So maybe if I stay back 4 to 5 inches on one side I wont screw the whole thing up and that side will stay true. I just stamp small stuff belts,cellphone cases and maybe a purse or two. So maybe I wont hit it hard enough to damage it. I reckon since I've already bought it I might as well find out. I reckon the worst that can happen is I'm out 28.00 bucks.

Thanks again

Mike

I'm not an experienced stamper by any means, but stamping isn't what I would call 'pounding' hard...and the leather is cushioning the blows from the stone. Personally, it's not something that I see a reason for, particularly with thicker stones, but was always taught, and I guess always stuck to it. I would refrain from heavy blows though, and personally, prefer setting rivets, snaps etc on an anvil or other metal. Thinking about it, I'd also keep the cutting board for large punches off it too, but that's more a personal thought.

Heck, for $28, if you find you like it for tooling, in time buy another and have one for sharpening, one for tooling!

[Bree]

I'm not an experienced stamper by any means, but stamping isn't what I would call 'pounding' hard...and the leather is cushioning the blows from the stone. Personally, it's not something that I see a reason for, particularly with thicker stones, but was always taught, and I guess always stuck to it. I would refrain from heavy blows though, and personally, prefer setting rivets, snaps etc on an anvil or other metal. Thinking about it, I'd also keep the cutting board for large punches off it too, but that's more a personal thought.

Heck, for $28, if you find you like it for tooling, in time buy another and have one for sharpening, one for tooling!

You can stamp on it. Just don't do anything that will cause it to crack or chip... don't allow that certifiably flat surface to get unflat. Don't let a steel hammer face directly contact the stone. Don't let anything act like a chisel on the stone. Keep any force spread out and buffered. Then you will be just fine.

Hey it's SOLID granite!! It's Mohs 6 or 7 depending upon how much quartz is in there. It is basically one step above magma... pure dense, heavy, igneous rock. You don't have to baby it... just don't abuse it. Keep your Mohs 8 or 9 sandpapers and abrasives facing AWAY from the softer stone because they WILL scratch it.

You are gonna love your new stone. And I'll bet you that nobody else on the block has one!!