Help me understand sizing in DBx1, 16x231, 16x95, 1738A needles

[williaty]

I'm trying to read the tea leaves of bad translations and incomplete documentation. Today's new machine says it takes "Needles 16x231 up to Size 19 and Needles 16x95 in all sizes". OK, consult the cross reference and I'm delighted to find that 16x231 is equivalent to DBx1, which I already have for another of my machines. Then I begin to ponder that "up to Size 19" bit. I know DBx1 is a bastard of a system where the needle shank diameter suddenly changes when you go from Size 18 to Sizes 20 and above. So if the needlebar is bored to accept DBx1 needles sizes 18 and below, I physically won't be able to fit a size 20 needle in there. It made me wonder if the translation was trying to say it'll accept larger than Size 19 needles but only if you switch to this other System 16x95. On The Thread Exchange's site, I found some info that seems to support this because they have a note about the shank diameter change and say that if you want to use bigger needles in a needlebar bored for the smaller needles, you can switch to System 1738 A and get up to a Size 24. Cross referencing 1738 A points to System 16x95, so that kind of squares with what the bad English in the manual suggests.

 

So, am I right that if I want a needle for this machine in size 20 and above, I can just order a Groz-Beckert System 1738 A needle and all the dimensions will be correct to match the lower-sized DBx1 needles? Yes, I understand that physically fitting the needle shank into the needlebar is only one of the critical dimensions to actually sewing properly but before I order a pack of needles I want to make sure I have the lay of the land correct.

[kgg]

2 hours ago, williaty said:

So, am I right that if I want a needle for this machine in size 20 and above,

From the information I have seen the needle shank diameter size goes up from 1.63 mm for size #18 needle used for V69 thread changes to 2.00 mm for size #19 needles used for V92 thread and up to size #25 needle when using the DBx1 needle system. To get around shank diameter you need to change to the Groz-Beckert System 1738 A system. What machine are you planning on buying the needles for and for what size thread?

kgg

[williaty]

2 hours ago, kgg said:

From the information I have seen the needle shank diameter size goes up from 1.63 mm for size #18 needle used for V69 thread changes to 2.00 mm for size #19 needles used for V92 thread and up to size #25 needle when using the DBx1 needle system. To get around shank diameter you need to change to the Groz-Beckert System 1738 A system. What machine are you planning on buying the needles for and for what size thread?

kgg

Yeah, that's basically the same info I found, so that's reassuring that it might work.

 

I just picked up a Consew 99 today. I demoed it with v69 thread because the largest needle we had was a DBx1 #18. I really need it to sew with at least v92 for sail repair. v138 would be a welcome luxury surprise but I have no idea if the machine will stretch that far.

[kgg]

28 minutes ago, williaty said:

I really need it to sew with at least v92 for sail repair.

I am not sure if this is going to be the best machine for sail repair as I think it is a drop feed machine. The zig zag is a nice feature for sail repair but I think the Consew 99 is similar to the Singer 20u machines which were good in fabric.

kgg

[williaty]

18 hours ago, kgg said:

I am not sure if this is going to be the best machine for sail repair as I think it is a drop feed machine. The zig zag is a nice feature for sail repair but I think the Consew 99 is similar to the Singer 20u machines which were good in fabric.

kgg

Sadly, is drop-feed only. However, in 2 years of watching for one, it's the first zig-zag machine that has come up for sale at all within 250mi of my location. If someday a walking foot ZZ machine comes up for sale, I'll swap in a heartbeat.

[kgg]

1 minute ago, williaty said:

If someday a walking foot ZZ machine comes up for sale, I'll swap in a heartbeat.

Another alternative would be the portable walking foot machines that are walking foot machines with zig zag that that a standard 135 x 16 needle like the Sailrite LSZ-1(new $1000 US) or Reliable Barracuda (new $500US) and there are others.

kgg