What Is Normal For Using A Sewing Machine?

[lranger]

I have a new machine, and I am new to using sewing machines, although I have used home sewing machines some in the past.

I've had this machine about a month now, and I still can not get it to sew consistently without problems.

My question is, "Is it normal, with an industrial walking foot machine, to have to spend all day fooling with it to get it to sew

without skipping stitches or raveling the thread? Then, say I manage to get it to sew reasonably well, then I have to work all day on it again, if I just change the color of the thread (different brand), or use a different piece of leather even though it's the same thickness?

I just can't believe this is normal, or that every person in the world who sews on a machine all day long has to go to this much trouble and aggravation.

Maybe I'm wrong.

Keith

[lranger]

I should have attached this photo. I'm trying to sew a purse strap. It's two layers of 2 oz. leather, glued together with a strip if bag stiffener in the middle. Includes a test piece.

Keith

[SARK9]

You should mention what model of machine you are using, plus the needle and thread size/type.

Off the cuff, your thread tensions look FAR too high for your material, and the stitch length looks a bit short.

-DC

[lranger]

It's a Techsew 2700 and I'm using a #16 needle with #69 bonded nylon thread. I tried for a long time to get the machine to sew this material with a #18 needle and #69 thread but it will not even begin to do that. When I changed to the #16 needle I was able to sew the whole bag together OK until I tried to sew the strap.

I just tried it again. It sewed 5 inches great, then broke the thread. I started again and it sewed about 3 inches and started raveling the thread again.

[biglew]

I am not an expert but I agree the tension is to high... check the threading to see that it is in the middle of the tension discs....and didn't slip out and go behind a disc

[lranger]

The upper thread is threaded correctly and is between the two tensioning discs. I have tried adjusting bobbin tension up and down, and the upper tension up and down.

My criteria for adjusting tension is; first that it will at least make a stitch, then that the thread is not laying on the surface of the leather either on the top or the bottom, then that the loop is inside the material and the stitches look good on the top and the bottom.

How should I be doing it?

Keith

[Constabulary]

probably a needle / hook timing problem or the needle is not insert correctly (slightly angled?)?

[Techsew Ron]

The upper thread is threaded correctly and is between the two tensioning discs. I have tried adjusting bobbin tension up and down, and the upper tension up and down.

My criteria for adjusting tension is; first that it will at least make a stitch, then that the thread is not laying on the surface of the leather either on the top or the bottom, then that the loop is inside the material and the stitches look good on the top and the bottom.

How should I be doing it?

Keith

Hi Keith, please give us a call or contact us by email, we'll have a technician troubleshoot this with you today.

Thanks,

Ron

[lranger]

I thought I would update this thread in case there was anyone following it.

I've been working with Techsew's tech guy but we really haven't found any reason for why this machine skips stitches on this thin leather I'm using. It will sew thicker leathers just fine, and with larger needles and threads. It will even sew several layers of linen fabric, but it won't sew this 2 oz. leather I'm using. Go figure.

Keith

[Evo160K]

An amateur thinking out loud here: I think I'm reading the glued strap is the problem, if so could the glue be an issue?

[Constabulary]

I´d probably test a smaller needle size (I know #16 needle is for #69 tread - but anyway) and / or a different needle brand as well. I once used Pfaff 138 and I had a lot of problems with needles as I only used the cheap ones but nowadays I only use Schmetz + Groz Beckert and never had needle issues again.

Often it is the needle bar that has to be lowered a tiny tiny bit. Then the thread loop will be formed a little earlier or is slightly wider and the hook can catch the loop better.

I´d also check the distance between needle scarf + hook. The hooks should meet the needle within the needle scarf about 1.6mm above the needle eye but should but touch the needle. If your ears are good you can hear when the hook is touching the needle.

I recently had issues with my (very old) Singer 133K and a tiny bit really made the difference. I had to move the hook toward the needle a tiny bit and now it works well - no skipped stitches anymore (yet)!

Edited October 31, 2014 by Constabulary

[lranger]

At first, I thought the glue was the issue too, but I have since tried sewing the material without glue and it still skips stitches. What it does, usually, is start out stitching OK for a few inches then start skipping the stitches. It'll skip 5 or 6 stitches, hit 1 or 2, skip 6 or 8, etc. Besides, a machine that's made for sewing leather certainly should sew when the pieces are glued.

Constabulary, the timing issue has been looked at. The hook was passing the needle about 1/8th" above the needle hole. I adjusted it to 1/16" above the hole. Still skips stitches. The only way I got it to sew this material as well as it does is when I changed to a #16 needle, as you suggested. I thought that fixed the problem, but NOT. Techsew doesn't want me using anything smaller than a #18 needle,,, spec is 18 to 24. I have a question for you,,,, how do you adjust the space between the hook tip and the needle? I know how to adjust the needle bar height, but can't figure out how to adjust the clearance between needle and hook.

I just did another test. I tried sewing a small piece of everything I have here that's about 2 oz.. two different hides of tundra sheepskin, one 2.5 oz. cowhide, very thin pigskin, and buckskin. It only skipped a couple of stitches on the buckskin,,,,, but they were small pieces.

See, if the machine skips even one stitch that's visible on a product for a customer, then it's ruined.

On another note,,,,, I'm finishing the bag I was making with hand stitching. I haven't missed a stitch yet.

Keith

[Constabulary]

I have restored and worked on various machines over the time but I never worked on this machine.

I know the flat bed type of this machine and when you want to adjust the hook distance on it you have to move the hook saddle so you have to loosen the 2 screws of the hook saddle and the 2 set screws of the gear on the hook drive shaft. I think it is about the same at a cylinder machine it will just look a bit different.

I can tell you what I would try to do but I have to look at the parts list first...

But this can only be a suggestion as i`m not a sewing machine mechanic and never worked on a 2700.

[Constabulary]

I just looked for a Consew 227R-2 manual which is about the same machine and it says distance between hook and needle should be 0 - 0.5mm.

Don´t know how much information you get from the Techsew manual so I thought the Consew manual could be useful for you.

You can download it here:

http://www.consew.com/Files/112347/PartsBooks/227R-2.pdf

The screws you have to loose to move the hook towards the needle - if necessary - are No. 52 + 53 and possibly the 3 screws No. 2 to move the hook driving gear too.

Pictures are taken from the consew manual I have linked above.

So this is what I would try IF the hook - needle distance is wrong. If this does not help I´d try other needles or try to play little bit with the angle of the needle.

Edited October 31, 2014 by Constabulary

[lranger]

Thank you very much for all your effort and the information. I understand pretty much what has to be done to adjust needle-hook clearance now, if I need to. I don't think I need to adjust it, though, since I have about .007" clearance.

I'm using Schmetz #16 needles and the rest is what came with the machine,,,, Ruitai.

Again, thanks for your help.

Keith

[Techsew Ron]

Thank you very much for all your effort and the information. I understand pretty much what has to be done to adjust needle-hook clearance now, if I need to. I don't think I need to adjust it, though, since I have about .007" clearance.

I'm using Schmetz #16 needles and the rest is what came with the machine,,,, Ruitai.

Again, thanks for your help.

Keith

Hi Keith,

Spoke with Mike this morning, he mentioned that you were having issues only with 1 kind of leather but everything else seems to sew fine. We'd like to test the leather you're having difficulty with - Mike asked you to send a sample yesterday. We'll keep you updated after we take a look.

Also he told me you were using size #16 needles which is not recommended on the 2700. We time the machine to work within #18 and #23.

As always you can give us a call to discuss further.

Ron

[lranger]

I'm just trying to solve the problem, by whatever means that works.

I would also like to be clear that Mike at Techsew support has been very helpful. He has taken pictures and sent videos of the hook timing, basically done everything he can. I appreciate that and I've told him so.

I am sending some of the leather that's giving me the problem to Techsew. It'll be very interesting to see how they do with it.

I don't know why it won't sew this particular leather, all I know is I don't want to be wondering if it's going to sew every time I buy leather.

And, as I told Mike, at this point I don't think there is anything wrong with the machine, like something out of adjustment.

I'm just hoping that someone might come up with some magical trick that will work.

Keith

[lranger]

I know that this thread is a bit old, but since people search for and read posts after some time has gone by I want to update this thread.

After 2 months of working on this machine, I finally got enough information, and by observing how the machine works, I finally realized that it was out of time.

It may seem that that would be easy to determine more quickly than what it took me, but there is one VERY important fact that never seems to be mentioned when talking about setting the timing. Everyone stresses that the hook should pass the scarf of the needle at a certain distance from the needle and that the hook should be passing the needle a certain distance above the eye of the needle, which is all correct. BUT, unless I missed it somewhere, no one ever mentions that this HAS TO HAPPEN AFTER THE NEEDLE HAS REACHED ITS LOWEST POINT AND HAS GONE BACK UP A CERTAIN DISTANCE. On this 2700, the distance is 2.5mm. When I checked for this, the hook was way past the needle at the point where the needle had risen 2.5mm, or about 3/32". I don't see how it ever made a stitch, no matter what size thread or needle I had in it.

There were two other problems with this machine when I received it. One is that there was a plastic zip-tie inside the head, around the foot lift shaft, and a piece of heavy chord, which I removed. (I assume they were there to prevent damage in shipping from overseas.) Two, the mechanism that releases the upper thread tension when the foot is lifted DID NOT RELEASE THE TENSION. This was because the very small shaft that goes thru there was too short. I had to make a shim to put in there to get that to work.

Constabulary, if you read this, the information you gave me was very, very helpful. Having the exploded parts diagrams enabled me to figure out how to adjust the timing and the bobbin assembly. Thank you very much, and thank you to all who tried to help, also.

The machine has been sewing flawlessly since I set the timing correctly, and I've been using a #16 round point needle, #69 thread, and 2 oz. leather. I haven't had an occasion to use it on thicker leathers yet, but I'm sure it would do just fine.

[Constabulary]

Seems the machine has not been tested properly before shipping.

Not sure where you put the shim but usually there is a disc with a small bar in the center and this small bar can be adjusted by tapping it a little bit to one or the other side to adjust the tension release.

Most machines of this class (if not all) have about the same hook / needle bar / timing settings. So you had to go back to almost zero with the timing as it seems. Glad you solved it!

Edited January 19, 2015 by Constabulary

[Techsew Ron]

I know that this thread is a bit old, but since people search for and read posts after some time has gone by I want to update this thread.

After 2 months of working on this machine, I finally got enough information, and by observing how the machine works, I finally realized that it was out of time.

It may seem that that would be easy to determine more quickly than what it took me, but there is one VERY important fact that never seems to be mentioned when talking about setting the timing. Everyone stresses that the hook should pass the scarf of the needle at a certain distance from the needle and that the hook should be passing the needle a certain distance above the eye of the needle, which is all correct. BUT, unless I missed it somewhere, no one ever mentions that this HAS TO HAPPEN AFTER THE NEEDLE HAS REACHED ITS LOWEST POINT AND HAS GONE BACK UP A CERTAIN DISTANCE. On this 2700, the distance is 2.5mm. When I checked for this, the hook was way past the needle at the point where the needle had risen 2.5mm, or about 3/32". I don't see how it ever made a stitch, no matter what size thread or needle I had in it.

There were two other problems with this machine when I received it. One is that there was a plastic zip-tie inside the head, around the foot lift shaft, and a piece of heavy chord, which I removed. (I assume they were there to prevent damage in shipping from overseas.) Two, the mechanism that releases the upper thread tension when the foot is lifted DID NOT RELEASE THE TENSION. This was because the very small shaft that goes thru there was too short. I had to make a shim to put in there to get that to work.

Constabulary, if you read this, the information you gave me was very, very helpful. Having the exploded parts diagrams enabled me to figure out how to adjust the timing and the bobbin assembly. Thank you very much, and thank you to all who tried to help, also.

The machine has been sewing flawlessly since I set the timing correctly, and I've been using a #16 round point needle, #69 thread, and 2 oz. leather. I haven't had an occasion to use it on thicker leathers yet, but I'm sure it would do just fine.

Hi lranger,

The small zip tie holding the cord around the foot shaft is supposed to be there - this is to keep the parts related to the presser foot lift lubricated.

I assumed you got the machine back up and running when you originally contacted Mike back in November, as he notified me back then that the issue with your 2700 was 100% that it became off-timed and that you were sent timing instructions.

I'm glad it is set properly and sewing flawlessly now. Please call us directly if you have any more issues.

Ron

Seems the machine has not been tested properly before shipping.

We've never shipped a machine before thoroughly testing and sampling.

Ron

[lranger]

Techsew Ron, by finishing up this thread, I was only trying to help some others that seem to be having the same kinds of problems I had, but now you have really xxxxxxxxxxxx by implying that you guys solved the problem.

The facts are: All the problems I listed above were present when I received the machine on day one.

I worked with you guys for two months without resolving the problem.

The video that you sent me regarding the timing was incomplete as I stated above, there was no mention of the fact that the needle had to have reached the bottom of its travel and come back up. Therefore, my machine looked just like the video you sent. This fact leads me to believe you don't even know how to set the timing properly yourself.

I actually figured out the timing problem when I was watching Cobra Steve's excellent video in which he thoroughly explains the operation, maintenance, and adjustment of the Cobra 4. When he explained how to set the timing, I knew right then that was my machine's problem. I checked it right then and it was way off. I adjusted it myself, and now it works.

The zip-tie and chord have nothing to do with oiling. It only restricted the operation of the foot lift.

When I received the machine, it had a #20 needle in it, large thread, and the samples that had been sewn on the machine using the longest stitch length the machine can do. It would sew that material, but not without giving problems, and it would not sew 2 oz. leather with a #18 needle and #69 thread. It was skipping stitches, raveling thread, and creating birds nests.

Your own advertising says, "Your machine arrives oiled, adjusted, thoroughly tested, and ready to sew." I don't consider that to be the case.

I agree with Constabulary. Maybe you need to check on whoever it is that is supposed to thoroughly test and adjust the machines before they go out.

Don't interject yourself in my posts trying to act like you're being helpful again. You are not.

[Constabulary]

We've never shipped a machine before thoroughly testing and sampling.

Ron

Hi Ron,

so you are the only dealer who sells Techsew machines? I did not know that I assumed there are more dealers and you are a kind of wholesaler and dealer. Sorry - I don´t wanted to offend you in any kind! I´m sure that you will send your machines out well tested. Please apologize!

[Techsew Ron]

Hi Ron,

so you are the only dealer who sells Techsew machines? I did not know that I assumed there are more dealers and you are a kind of wholesaler and dealer. Sorry - I don´t wanted to offend you in any kind! I´m sure that you will send your machines out well tested. Please apologize!

No worries! We do have dealers and distributors but everything passes through us first.

Cheers,

Ron