Finishing The Backside Of Belts

[Paxton]

Hi-

I am currently making belt straps to go with the belt buckles. I am new to leather working but have come a long way in the last month and the belts are starting to look nice and I am beginning to get a good system going. The problem I am having is that my wife does not like the light natural color of the underside of the premium tooling leather I am using to make the straps. We both would like the underside to look a little more finished or at least a darker tan or brown. So far I have tried dying the underside with a light brown fiebings low voc (california) dye which produces a nice tan. The problem is then how to seal the back so the underside dye will not rub off when wearing the belt. I have tried a acrylic clear coat but the results are a uneven coloration of very dark patches and very light patches of the tan color. So i guess my main question is how to seal the underside of the belt if you dye it?? Some other methods I have tried are burnishing the back with no dye (seems to time consuming and dont really like the result). I currently use the eco-flo water based dyes on the front of the belts (I know... they are harder to work with but I am in California and have decided to just start my leather experience using them... I also like the color selection better than the low VOC dyes) and then use a couple of layers of a clear coat. I have thought about just dyeing the backside of the belt the same color using the eco-flo dyes but then again I would really need to seal the back which becomes more of a problem since the backside is rougher and harder to seal it seams. Sorry for the long post but hope someone can help with some advice on finishing the backside. Any thing would work as long as it gives it a darker tan, brown or dyed look. (I know I could get into stitching a finished bottom piece to the belt but we are trying to stay simple). Thanks!

Paxton---

[terrahyd]

HI; Paxton;;

This may well be the reason a lot of us glue in a thin liner then lace or sew;;you may use tooling leather or predyed, 2-3 oz is handy,I know it's a lot of trouble but ????? if you lace reduce belt with by 1/4 in, perhaps some one who still finish's the back sides will chime in ,,,I gave in years ago ...sorry ...

Doc..

[NoahL]

I leave the insides undyed (except for vinegarooned belts), so I'm not really much help. Honestly, I like having the undyed leather on the inside so you can see how it take a patina over years of use. I think most people who finish the insides used NeatLac when it was still available, or possibly Resolene.

~Noah

[Paxton]

Thanks Doc and Noah for replying. Any advise helps... and i can use all the advise I can get :-) I myself would probably leave them unfinished but the wife likes a more finished look. So i will keep trying different things. I have several experiments going right now so I will post if I find anything that seems to work. If i wanted to try maybe burnishing the underside is there a good way to do it that works best... like would you just wet the surface and use a larger burnishing tool that covers more surface or is there something other than water that would make a better burnished surface for the back? Might also just be to much time and trouble (and muscle:-) to try and burnish the back but if an efficient way was thought up maybe it would work and would give it a little more of a finished surface instead of dying. Any thoughts?

[Frank]

There are a couple of different ways you can finish the backside even if you dye the back.

1.) Use Gum Tranc. and a cloth rag. Put a liberal amount on the backside of the belt and rub vigorously until you get a smooth finish. This will cause a little of the dye to rub off but it will seal nicely. It does take some time and elbow grease to achieve this. Do this before you put any holes in the belt.

2.) Easiest and Quickest method: Take a 1" foam brush and add an even coat of Fiebings Leather Balm with Atom Wax. Allow about 15-20 min. for it to dry and then buff it well with a piece of denim until shiny. Then add a second coat on top of the first. Be sure to use longer fuller strokes on the second coat to avoid and bubbles in the liquid. Also do this before adding any holes.

I hope this helps out a bit. Just don't get either one of these on the front of the belt as they will alter the color of the finish.

Frank

[Dwight]

I quit fooling around a long time ago with my belts.

I dip dye em, . . . every last one, . . . from tongue to buckle.

Clear coat em with a 50/50 mix of resolene and tap water, . . . and I haven't had any complaints from any of my customers at all.

I brush the resolene on with a bristle hair brush, . . . making sure the back really gets a good dose, . . . when they dry, . . . they're done.

May God bless,

Dwight

[Paxton]

Thanks so much for the Reply Frank. I like how the second method sounds and that will be the one I try first. Really appreciate you sharing the tips!

I will post back how it goes.

Paxton

[Paxton]

I quit fooling around a long time ago with my belts.

I dip dye em, . . . every last one, . . . from tongue to buckle.

Clear coat em with a 50/50 mix of resolene and tap water, . . . and I haven't had any complaints from any of my customers at all.

I brush the resolene on with a bristle hair brush, . . . making sure the back really gets a good dose, . . . when they dry, . . . they're done.

May God bless,

Dwight

That sounds like a great method! If you dont mind me asking how exactly do you dip dye them? Do you use a tray that hold the dye for dipping and about how long do you leave them in the dye?

Paxton---

[Frank]

Not a problem Paxton. I hope it works well for you. I use the same method with most of my belts. It's quick and simple and seems to do the trick.

Frank

[Dwight]

Paxton, . . . I have about a 9 x 14 inch aluminum cake pan my wife donated to my leather shop. It is the one I do the browns in, . . . I have another one for blacks.

I pour about a half inch of dye in the bottom of the pan, . . . put on two rubber gloves, . . . they go in buckle end first, . . . and they just stay in long enough to absorb the dye.

I run em through with the flat of the inside against the bottom of the pan (put a wet paper towel under the pan to keep it from sliding, . . . or tape it down with masking tape) looks like a flat snake taking a bath in dye if you can visualize that.

It takes all of about 30 seconds per belt, . . . when I'm done, . . . put the funnel in the dye bottle, . . . pour the rest back in, . . . rinse out the pan, . . . done .

Most of the time, I'm doing one belt at a time, . . . but I got sick of trying to daub, or sponge, or dab and get it to suit me. This way it is uniform in color every time. The one thing you have to do though if you want lighter shades, . . . experiment with thinning the dye. I found one really beautiful reddish brown that way, . . . and it is my biggest seller.

May God bless,

Dwight

[Paxton]

Thanks Dwight for letting me know how you dye. The method sounds great and I am going to give it a try. Sounds like it would definitly give a more even coat than what I have been getting with sponging. I recently dyed several belts and found that when I use a cloth to ably the first coat and then a sponge brush for the next coat I am getting a better dye job than when I was just sponging.

I did some more test and found a somwhat good solution to my initial question on dying the back. Even though I am using water based dyes on the front of the belts I was using a low VOC spirit based dye on the back. That is when I was getting a real patchy finish of light and dark after using a clear coat of eco-flo super sheen over the spirit dye on the back... Well I had the idea to use the same eco-flo water based dye on the back and see how that did. Once i applied the super sheen finish it turned out a nice and consistent color and looked great not at all like the patchy finish when using the super sheen over the spirit dye. I know the spirit dye penetrated far more than the water based dye so maybe this accounted for the patchy finish after using the supper sheen to coat it.

Anyway looks like I got a method going for now and things are starting to work. I know what some might say... that the water based on the front and back might pose a problem with bleeding but I am finisheing bosth sides with a few coats of the eco-flo super sheen and after buffing out a final coat of either bees wax or carnauba wax buffed out to a shine. so i am pretty sure they will be fine but will do some water test once i have the finished product.

So thanks to everyone for the help. I know i will have more questions to come.

Here is one i already have. I have found the segma snaps from tandy to be on the cheep side as several have pulled apart or not set properly while installing them on the strap. This also could be due to the segma snap setter I got from Tandy as my wife says that she was use to using an older design that seemed better than this new one Tandy caries. Does anyone have a good source for snaps they have used that they can trust that you don't have to buy like 1000 minimum or a source for the older style setting tool?

Thanks-

Paxton---

[Paxton]

There are a couple of different ways you can finish the backside even if you dye the back.

1.) Use Gum Tranc. and a cloth rag. Put a liberal amount on the backside of the belt and rub vigorously until you get a smooth finish. This will cause a little of the dye to rub off but it will seal nicely. It does take some time and elbow grease to achieve this. Do this before you put any holes in the belt.

2.) Easiest and Quickest method: Take a 1" foam brush and add an even coat of Fiebings Leather Balm with Atom Wax. Allow about 15-20 min. for it to dry and then buff it well with a piece of denim until shiny. Then add a second coat on top of the first. Be sure to use longer fuller strokes on the second coat to avoid and bubbles in the liquid. Also do this before adding any holes.

I hope this helps out a bit. Just don't get either one of these on the front of the belt as they will alter the color of the finish.

Frank

Hey Frank Just wondering about the first method. What do you use to rub the backside after aflying the gum tranc. Just a cloth, piece of canvas, or something harder? Thought I would try both methods and see which i like.

A second question about method #2. Do you think you could apply the leather balm with atoms wax to a un-dyed backside to give it a simple finish that might darken it a little?

Thanks-

Paxton---

[Frank]

Hey Frank Just wondering about the first method. What do you use to rub the backside after aflying the gum tranc. Just a cloth, piece of canvas, or something harder? Thought I would try both methods and see which i like.

A second question about method #2. Do you think you could apply the leather balm with atoms wax to a un-dyed backside to give it a simple finish that might darken it a little?

Thanks-

Paxton---

Paxton,

I usually use a piece of cloth like a shirt scrap or something on that line. As far as the second method, you can apply it to un-dyed leather too. It will darken it a little but not very much. I hope that helps.

Frank

[Paxton]

Paxton,

I usually use a piece of cloth like a shirt scrap or something on that line. As far as the second method, you can apply it to un-dyed leather too. It will darken it a little but not very much. I hope that helps.

Frank

Thanks for getting back to me Frank. Sounds good. The method I am using of dying and then using eco-flo super sheen on the back seems to work well but I am going to try the other methods you mentioned to compare and see what gives me the best results. I read where some use neatsfoot oil on the back as it darkens it a little and let it dry overnight. Do you think this might work as a natural finish on the non dyed underside of a belt strap? I have no experience with neatsfoot oil so don't know myself.

Thanks

Paxton---

[Frank]

Thanks for getting back to me Frank. Sounds good. The method I am using of dying and then using eco-flo super sheen on the back seems to work well but I am going to try the other methods you mentioned to compare and see what gives me the best results. I read where some use neatsfoot oil on the back as it darkens it a little and let it dry overnight. Do you think this might work as a natural finish on the non dyed underside of a belt strap? I have no experience with neatsfoot oil so don't know myself.

Thanks

Paxton---

Paxton

I'm not sure about using neatsfoot oil on the backside. I only oil the top side. The oil will even itself out by drawing further down in the leather. I think if you oil the back then you have a chance of oil seeping onto clothing if you end up oiling too heavy and not giving it enough time to even out and dissipate.

Frank

[Mongo]

I line almost all of my belts, but I don't dye the back of belts. When I occasionally do an unlined belt I try to not use leather that is "fuzzy" on the back side. I apply a light coat of neatsfoot oil and let it dry overnight. This will darken up the leather a little. After that I give it two coats of Tandy's satin sheen (made by Feibings). After it dries well, I buff it with a soft cloth like a piece of white T shirt.

I mostly do gunbelts for cowboy action shooters and I finish the backs of my lined belts the same way. Here in the South on a hot day it's very likely that someone will sweat through their gunbelt during a shoot. Not dyeing the back really helps stop dye from bleeding on to clothes. Just my 2 cents worth on the subject.

[Paxton]

Paxton

I'm not sure about using neatsfoot oil on the backside. I only oil the top side. The oil will even itself out by drawing further down in the leather. I think if you oil the back then you have a chance of oil seeping onto clothing if you end up oiling too heavy and not giving it enough time to even out and dissipate.

Frank

I was thinking the same thing about the oil possibly seeping glad you seem to second it. I really appreciate your fast replies and many thanks for all the help. I will let you know how it goes and try to add some pics at some point. Have a great day and happy leathering!

Paxton---

[Paxton]

I line almost all of my belts, but I don't dye the back of belts. When I occasionally do an unlined belt I try to not use leather that is "fuzzy" on the back side. I apply a light coat of neatsfoot oil and let it dry overnight. This will darken up the leather a little. After that I give it two coats of Tandy's satin sheen (made by Feibings). After it dries well, I buff it with a soft cloth like a piece of white T shirt.

I mostly do gunbelts for cowboy action shooters and I finish the backs of my lined belts the same way. Here in the South on a hot day it's very likely that someone will sweat through their gunbelt during a shoot. Not dyeing the back really helps stop dye from bleeding on to clothes. Just my 2 cents worth on the subject.

That Actually sounds like an idea I will want to try. I like the idea of sealing it after it has dried. I have been using the super sheen to seal the back (all I have right now) but it is pretty glossy and the satin sheen seems like it might look better on the back so I will try that also. If I could get away from dying the backside it would be nice as that is the part that is resting right against the wearer and would not be good if it did bleed. Thanks for the post or I might not have tried the neatfoot oil idea at all.

Paxton---

[Paxton]

I line almost all of my belts, but I don't dye the back of belts. When I occasionally do an unlined belt I try to not use leather that is "fuzzy" on the back side. I apply a light coat of neatsfoot oil and let it dry overnight. This will darken up the leather a little. After that I give it two coats of Tandy's satin sheen (made by Feibings). After it dries well, I buff it with a soft cloth like a piece of white T shirt.

I mostly do gunbelts for cowboy action shooters and I finish the backs of my lined belts the same way. Here in the South on a hot day it's very likely that someone will sweat through their gunbelt during a shoot. Not dyeing the back really helps stop dye from bleeding on to clothes. Just my 2 cents worth on the subject.

Hey Mongo-

I forgot to ask what type of leather do you use that is not fuzzy on the back. I am using a premium grade tooling leather 8-9 and some areas are not that bad but other areas are very fuzzy and a big problem for me sence i want to finish the backside (dont want to get into stiching on a backside right now). So do you have any recomendations for a nutral colored leather that I can still dye but has a nicer backside?

Paxton---

[Mongo]

Paxton,

I use to get all my leather from the local Leather Factory store (owned by Tandy), but I would have to spend hours going through their stuff to find decent leather. I have also purchased good leather from a big saddle shop here in Chattanooga, but I have to also pick through it to get what I want.

The best suggestion I have gotten for smoother backsides came from a top leather guy (Chuck Burrows) from www.cascity.com . What he does is order his stuff from Wickett and Craig, but to insure that he gets a smoother backside, he orders a thicker piece than what he needs and has them split it to the thickness he wants. Chuck states that the backsides he gets by ordering this way are almost always perfectly smooth. I'm pretty sure that they split it for free.

Another trick I have used is to sand the backside with very fine sandpaper (sometimes as fine as 600 grit). This helps make it pretty smooth. This doesn't work if the leather is too furry to start with, though. After I put Stain Sheen on the backside, I buff it pretty good with a clean cloth and this seems to burnish it pretty smooth.

[Paxton]

Paxton,

I use to get all my leather from the local Leather Factory store (owned by Tandy), but I would have to spend hours going through their stuff to find decent leather. I have also purchased good leather from a big saddle shop here in Chattanooga, but I have to also pick through it to get what I want.

The best suggestion I have gotten for smoother backsides came from a top leather guy (Chuck Burrows) from www.cascity.com . What he does is order his stuff from Wickett and Craig, but to insure that he gets a smoother backside, he orders a thicker piece than what he needs and has them split it to the thickness he wants. Chuck states that the backsides he gets by ordering this way are almost always perfectly smooth. I'm pretty sure that they split it for free.

Another trick I have used is to sand the backside with very fine sandpaper (sometimes as fine as 600 grit). This helps make it pretty smooth. This doesn't work if the leather is too furry to start with, though. After I put Stain Sheen on the backside, I buff it pretty good with a clean cloth and this seems to burnish it pretty smooth.

Mongo-

I super appreciate you posting back this information. This is exactly what I needed. Never thought of ordering a thicker grade and the fact that it could be split down to help with the fuzzyness. I already looked up Wickett and Craig and they look like a great source for ordering my leather. I am going to contact them later this week and see what they can do for me. I have also tried sanding but like you said when it is very fuzzy there is not much you can do. Again i appreciate the info!

Paxton---

[luke213]

Mongo-

I super appreciate you posting back this information. This is exactly what I needed. Never thought of ordering a thicker grade and the fact that it could be split down to help with the fuzzyness. I already looked up Wickett and Craig and they look like a great source for ordering my leather. I am going to contact them later this week and see what they can do for me. I have also tried sanding but like you said when it is very fuzzy there is not much you can do. Again i appreciate the info!

Paxton---

On leather I've had really great luck with Springfield Leather, you can get Hermann Oak there which should have a nice napp on the back of the leather.

www.springfieldleather.com They are also a sponsor of the forum but they have some of the best customer service I've ever received.

Good luck!

Luke

[Paxton]

On leather I've had really great luck with Springfield Leather, you can get Hermann Oak there which should have a nice napp on the back of the leather.

www.springfieldleather.com They are also a sponsor of the forum but they have some of the best customer service I've ever received.

Good luck!

Luke

Thanks Luke! I will definitely check them out also and look into the Herman Oak. Just browsed there site and looks like they have a good selection of leather. Thanks again.

Paxton---