Singer 111W155 Timing/thread Issues

[TSquared]

I just acquired a singer 111w155 waking foot machine. All the parts were there but it would not make a stitch to save my life. I down loaded and read every technical document I could find (most of them in this forum...thanks to all of you that contributed). I think I have the machine timed, but I would not take it to the bank. The needle bar has no marks so I used the 8 stitch setting to adjust to the hook. The timing mark for upper and lower was off by one tooth when the arm was at the highest point. I fixed that. The hook to needle was off by half an inch. I moved the large gear to the far left and turned the hook to align with the needle. So far so good. The needle to hook was off by a 1/16" so the hook just passed by the needle. I moved the hook assembly over till it just nicked the needle and backed it off a little. It now will pick up the lower thread. Here is where my issues start. When the needle is at the lowest point, the upper thread hangs loose from the upper arm by about an inch. I am 99% sure I have it threaded correctly. I am wondering if I still have a timing issue. With no tension on the upper thread, no stitch can be made as the thread just winds itself around the bobbin case. If anyone can tell me what the dimention is from the bottom of the needle bar to the bearing is, i can make a jig to set the needle bar (I have a milling machine and lathe). Any suggestions or help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance, Tom

[Trox]

Hi Tom, You must go true the rest of the adjustments as well, like the feed timing. When you talk about the upper arm, do you mean the thread take up arm? If you post some pictures of your threading we can better help you. The thread take-up will allow the thread loop be picked up before it tension the thread. You must check your thread take up spring too, lower tension disk. It seems like a threading error. Post some pictures.

Trox

[gottaknow]

I'll be on the road tommorow looking at some new machines, but I will take some photos for you of the critical timing issues on the 111. I thought I had some pics of everything here on my home computer. It sounds like your timing belt is off a tooth or so. You can't always go by the shaft timing marks since people move those without knowing. Certain screws go into the upper and lower shaft grooves to orient them before you place the timing belt. If that's off, you'll never get the machine to sew correctly. After that, the timing is straight forward and simple. In the mean time, when you do set your hook to your needle, let the hook just barely nick the needle, then use the guard on the hook to move the needle away from the needle. You can do with a flat screwdriver (it's bendy). You need to do this as when sewing thicker fabric, your needle will deflect away from your hook. Without a tiny bit of deflection of the needle to start with, you'll likely get skipped stitches. As the take up lever moves down, it gives your thread slack to travel around the hook. When it rises back up, it helps set the stitch. If at loop taking time by your hook, there's too much slack from your take up lever, your top and bottom shaft timing is off which once corrected you'll be able to set your timing on your hook.

Regards, Eric

[TSquared]

Trod and Eric,

Thanks for the quick reply. When I set the timing, the thread take up lever was at the top most position. The timing mark on the bottom was off by one tooth. If I understand correctly, it is possible that the timing pulley could be off by several teeth if one of the set screws is in the wrong valley on the shaft. I will take some photos and see if I can figure out how to post them. Eric, I have to agree with you on the timing. Why else would I have to move so many different setting? Gee, I think I found how to attach a file. Off to the basement for some photos. Got photos, guess I can't use an iPad to load them. I will try tomorrow from my pc at work. Goodnight!

Tom

[CowboyBob]

Tom,

To time the hook,the hook point needs to be @ the needle when the needlebar raises up 3/32" from BDC .

Let me lnow if you have anymore questions.

Bob

[TSquared]

Bob,

I have the hook at the needle with just a .oo5 gap between hook and needle. the eye of the needle is about 1/16 below the hook. That being said, I am not confident that the needle bar is set correctly. there were no marks on the needle bar so I used the setting of 8tpi, needle 3/32 (approx) off bdc then adjusted needle bar to get the hook approx 1/16 above the eye. I am attaching some photos to this comment as requested by Trox and Eric

[CowboyBob]

Does it sew?

[TSquared]

No, unfortunatly not. When I got the machine the guy said it was "looked at" by a sewing machine guy. Said he was having trouble with it, paid the guy 90 bucks and got a "works fine" for his money. I build machinery for a living so I figured it can't be too hard to figure out. Oops! Anyhow, when I got it set up, the needle bar would hit the walking foot on its way down (the walking foot was not attached when I picked up the machine). It was at that point that I started to see different issues with the hook timing, needle bar timing etc. none of the manuals I have read give any step by step instructions for setup. I suppose that I mostly interpreted the manuals hoping that common scents would prevail. After several hours of looking under the hood, I understand some of the workings. This is a good forum and it appears that there are a lot of people who have had similar problems as mine. I hope I can learn enough to fix my problems and hopefully sometime in the future help someone else with their problems. Many thanks to those who are helping me.

Tom

[CowboyBob]

Ok,once you set the timing so the needle rises 3/32" from bottom dead center,then you need to make sure the needle height is set so the point of the hook is about 1/8" above the eye of the needle & it should sew.

[gottaknow]

I'm still thinking one of your timing gears for the upper and lower shafts aren't in the right spot in order to use the timing marks between the upper and lower shafts. I'll take pics for you tommorow so you can orient them accordingly. Then you can proceed to do your hook timing. If your feed timing is off, you can't set that either until your top and bottom shafts are coordinated. Once the shafts are timed correctly, you'll achieve all the other settings.

Regards, Eric