Motor For Adler 105-8 Clone

[AEH]

Gentlemen,

I recently bought a Claes 214-1 heavy duty machine, which is an Adler 105-8 clone. (Pictures attached). It was set up as a treadle machine, but I want to get a motor for it. I have read a few threads in this forum about motors, and also studied a few suppliers web sites, but I am still somewhat confused about the right choice of motor for this machine. I would like to be able to sew up to 10-12 mm thick leather, and, as I mostly have been hand sewing up to now and have little experience with machine sewing, I need very good control i.e. slow speed.

I realise that I will need a servo motor, but I am not sure of how much power I will need, or how low the lowest RPM needs to be. The hand wheel pulley of this machine is 150 mm (6 in). I live in Norway, and the motor must be 220/240 V.

I have been looking at this two motors: https://www.universalsewing.com/tek9.asp?pg=products&specific=1`302351&usscriteria=448.101&usssearchby=header

and

http://www.leathermachineco.com/product/brushless-digital-d-c-servo-motor/

but I am not dure if the fist one is slow enough or if the second one is strong enough. I will be grateful for any advice and suggestions.

Thanks,

Arvid

Edited November 10, 2014 by AEH

[Constabulary]

I can highly recommend Jack Servo Motors with 750 Watts Motor from College Sewing - this one is quite powerful and it runs on 220V and since Great Britain is in the EU you don´t have to pay import taxes and shipping is cheaper as well.

https://www.college-sewing.co.uk/JK-561A-220V-750W=1HP-SERVO-MOTOR

I personally have this motor with 550 and 750 watts and I´m very pleased with them.

In case you need more torque you probably have to add a speed reducer as well - College Sewing don`t have them but they are fairly easy to make.

Since your machine was treadle powered you already have a "hole" for the speed reducer shaft in the right cast iron table leg... I have added two picture of my setups with these motors (both have a speed reducer) so you have an idea.

EDIT:

Sorry - Norway is not an EU member but anyway - the Jack motors are great and shipping is still cheaper I think.

Edited November 10, 2014 by Constabulary

[AEH]

Hi Constabulary,

I have looked at this motor, and it looks nice. I particularly like that the speed control don't sit on the motor. I also like your set up, But I have been in contact with College Sewing, and they say that the slowest speed for this motor is 500 rpm. I want to be able to run as slow as 50/60 stitches per minute, and I am afraid that will be difficult with this motor.

Anyway, thanks for your input.

Arvid

[GerryR]

You can use a standard 3 phase AC motor (1725 rpm) with a 5 to 1 gear reducer attached and use a VFD (variable speed drive) for speed control. The VFD only requires single phase input (220, 1ph input VFD's are readily available) and generates the three phase output for the motor. This gives zero to 345 rpm, and depending on the output pulley diameter ratio to the pulley on your machine, can be reduced even further. The VFD's provide constant torque to the rated motor rpm, so there is no issue with being able to sew the thickness you require with a 1/2 to 3/4 hp motor. (I am actually using a 1 hp motor that I had.) Foot pedal control can be obtained by using a TIG welder foot pedal, which can be had from Ebay; the motor and speed reducer can be had from Ebay, as well.

Of course you need to have someone around that is comfortable making the setup, but I like it as well as the DC servo's available.

I just thought I would mention another option

[Constabulary]

It all depends on the ration between motor pulley and balance wheel. The smaller the motor pulley and the larger the balance wheel the slower the machine sews.

500rpm is the lowest top speed setting - meaning the motor makes max 500 RPM when you push the pedal down fully.

The motor runs actually at 200rpm (slowest possible speed) regarding the display. When you add a speed reducer it will be much slower. I have added on both machines a 1:3 speed reducer and my Singer 133K sews much slower at 200rpm (motor rpm) than the Singer 111 as the 133K has a much larger balance wheel.

I just have ordered custom made 40mm pulley to get a more torque.

[Constabulary]

Just wanted to give you an idea of how it looks when my Jack motor is running at 200 rpm and how slow the needles goes up and down. Event an 500 and 1200 rpm it is still relatively slow stitching.

So the more reduction you have the faster you can run the motor and the more punch you have at your needle at a slow speed.

I´m not a technician and I cannot calculate the speed reduction from motor to balance wheel or the "belt distance reduction" in meters per second (or so) correctly but it is extremely slow and it works well.

Quite sunny today - sorry about the light conditions but I think you can see what I mean. I hope this helps.

Edited November 11, 2014 by Constabulary

[mikesc]

Constabulary..hi ..Thanks for posting that video , very helpful..

Some questions if I may ..

What is the diameter of the small pulley on your servo motor ?..and what is the diameter of the small pulley on your reducer, and the diameter of the big pulley on your reducer ?

( it looks like the big pulley is around 20cm diameter and the small one around 4 cm diameter, is the pulley on the servo also 4 cm diameter ? If that were the case? it would give a reduction in speed of a factor of about 5 of the output rpm shown on the control box, that would be 40rpm at the big pulley )..and what is the flywheel diameter on the machine head.

It actually looks like the servo pulley might be even smaller diameter, as it seems ( without my actually timing your video ) that you are getting something closer to 25 rpm equivalent at the needle bar and hook..I was looking to make a "reducer" ( problem is I cant find a supplier of pulleys in France ..and the new "eco" laws here mean that all the council run "refuse dumps" refuse to give anyone parts from scrapped machinery , such as old washing machines or computers* etc , if one asks, it all has to go for "re-cycling" ) and buy the same unit from college sewing ( probably have to buy all my pulleys from them too, adds to shipping costs )..

* I used to get scrapped computers for parts and rebuild them into working machines to give away to people who could not afford them, fit simple linux ( linux is damn near virus proof, like "linux mint", looks and handles like win XP, very good for "old folks" or "newbies" ) , now all the scrapped machines, washing machines, computers etc are collected from the council refuse depots by private companies ( who are paid by the councils ) shipped to China or India , where they are "responsibly recycled" by child labour in appalling conditions..

Edited November 11, 2014 by mikesc

[Constabulary]

Just before I shot the Video my new 40mm pulleys have arrived (custom made and not from College Sewing) and I have installed them.

So the new motor pulleys are 40mm, the pulleys at the speed reducer are 50mm and 150mm and the balance / fly wheel is 150mm as well.

So it goes from 40mm to 150mm and from 50mm to 150mm.

I´m very please with the performance so far, I only have problems with the old resin coated Army nylon webbing as it it extremely stiff and dense because of the resin coating. Seems I need a leather point needle instead of a round point but thats a different story.

Regarding the new laws - wow - that is something I would have expected in the "bureaucratic" Germany but not in France

My speed reducers are custom made so I have someone on hand who mills the pulleys out of aluminum. The reducer pulleys have 2 ball bearings so they are really nice and of a fine quality!

When I ordered them I had no clue what the actual effects will be so I ordered them with 3 steps but 2 steps (50mm / 150m) enough so no need for the middle pulley. I´m still learning... ;-)

[mikesc]

Regarding the new laws - wow - that is something I would have expected in the "bureaucratic" Germany but not in France

<small rant on >

France has six times the number of civil servants ( bureaucrats ) that Germany has..and that is not counting all the workers in such as EDF or GDF etc ( which used to be state run ) and who have the same ( and sometimes better "privileges" than actual civil servants* ..such as only paying €15.00 per month for their electricity..no matter how much electricity they actually consume ) ,same applies to all retired civil servants ( and retired politician ) , and all retired people who used to work at EDF or GDF etc.

Plus we have the "assimiles"..not officially civil servants, but who have all of the above privileges, and like all of the above they cannot be fired..

French bureaucracy costs businesses here more than the entire GDP of Holland..

The top individual income tax rate is up to 45 percent, and the top corporate tax rate has been lowered to 34.3 percent. Efforts to increase the top marginal tax rate to 75 percent were ruled unconstitutional. Other taxes include a value-added tax (VAT). The overall tax burden equals 44.2 percent of gross national income. Government expenditures continue to make up over half of the domestic economy, and public debt has reached over 90 percent of GDP.

Businesses ( even small ones like mine, pay well over 50% of our net ( after overheads and costs ) profit in taxes here the worts taxes are obligatory "social contributions", higher rates even than Sweden ) ..No-one wants to "hire", because it costs so much in "contributions and taxes" when a business does hire..Hence we have over 10% unemployment ..

We have 3 times as many people working for the government, the state ( here they are called "departements" ), the county, the town hall etc as all of the USA..

It has got waaaaay worse since 2012..

France invented bureaucracy..and then refined a particularly Kafka-esque version of it, which all the little businesses are paying for, the big ones ( like everywhere ) can afford tricky accountants and lawyers to make sure that they pay a far smaller percentage..

*My wife has been working as a French civil servant ( specialising in care of old people, Alzheimer's and dementia patients ) for the last 10 years ( she is working today, a public holiday in France,getting paid just the same rate as any other day, she is not one of the "privileged" )..she, like some French, is appalled at the waste and corruption and lazyness of so many who are civil servants here..

</small rant off>

Thanks for the details about the pulleys..the handwheel size explains much..I'll have to get my pulleys from College..good thing that they are lightweight alu, my sealed race bearings ( for the shaft ) will come from the UK too, here bearings are also a ridiculous price..even a single simple 20mm ball bearing ( just the one steel spherical bearing is over €3.oo ) ..I buy them at $14.oo per 1000 plus shipping from the USA ( I use them to make movable armatures for claymation figures fro my sons business, I drill and tap them to take armature rods ) ..shipping for them from the USA runs me about another $25.oo and then I have VAT on it all ..still way cheaper than €3.oo each ( plus VAT ) !!

Edited November 11, 2014 by mikesc

[VanRhodes]

So the new motor pulleys are 40mm, the pulleys at the speed reducer are 50mm and 150mm and the balance / fly wheel is 150mm as well.

So it goes from 40mm to 150mm and from 50mm to 150mm.

If im not mistaken the first stage with a 40mm motor pulley going to a larger 150mm pulley will give you a ratio of 3.75(150/40=3.75:1), and the second stage going from 50mm to 150mm again will give you an additional ratio of 3:1. So, in speed, this means the first stage reduce your 1200rmp to 320rmp(1200/3.75=320rpm) wich is then divided in three as its passed on from the second stage giving you a final rpm of 106.66(320/3=106.6). This is about 2 stitches per second(1.77 to be exact), provided I have understood the math correctly. Very impressive work brother!