Priam1

Well over 20 years ago I purchased a saddle for a problem horse I had at the time from a guy by the name of Dave Jones. Many of you may have heard of him. He was a horse trainer and then became a saddle maker--and he also wrote a saddlemaking book. Long before he just made saddles, I contacted him about a problem with my horse's withers. He said that he had just the saddle that would help me. He offered to sell me his used saddle and I bought it. This was a Balanced Ride Monte Foreman style saddle that had the forward stirrup leathers. Since it was really a pretty beat up saddle I thought that I would strip it down and rebuild it and, put regular stirrup leathers on it. Well, after stripping it down, I noticed that the bars at the fork where pretty straight as opposed to the bars being flared out to allow more movement at the shoulders. This saddle tree was made in 1950. So the question I have for you experienced saddle makers and tree makers is 1) Is this tree worth putting new Leather on or because of the lack of shoulder bar flare should I not bother and just order a new tree? Is this a big deal? Dave Jones was a horse trainer for a long time before he hung up his spurs, and it apparently suited him well--and the horses he rode. However a tree made in 1950 may not suit the horses of today. I guess would be considered at that time a "Full Quarter Horse" tree. and I don't have a specific horse in mind for this tree and was looking at it being just an all around saddle. I slapped the bare tree on a few big beefy quarter horses, but it looked like it kind of pinched them ever so slightly at the lower portion of the bars. But the horses that I am talking about were really fat and certainly not in riding condition. And. while it has nothing to do with the above question, the problem I had with the horse was that it was a young arab--extremely mutton withered and had a lot of baby fat on the withers. With regular riding, I sweated it off and no longer needed that wide a tree.

I have had the same problem with the first saddle that I am building. From what I remember, I ordered 14/15 oz leather, and based on the way I cut out my patterns from the hide, I had some significant weight drop off. I certainly don't mind this in non structural items, but it has really gven me concern in that my saddle skirts are at different weights, and my inskirt rigging are not consistent weight thickness. My question is for someone that is a novice like myself and who is not as yet proficient on putting my patterns in such a way as to maximize weight thickness, would I be better off purchasing the thickest leather possible and having the distributor plane it to a consistent thickness? Or is this just not a big deal?

it sounds like you didn't plan ahead when making your ground seat to allow for the thickness of your rigging insets. just install rigging and then smooth out groundseat with another piece of leather. Andy: You are absolutely correct. And thank you for the reply. I really never thought about it. The instructions said to sculpt the ground seat to the point where it feels good to the rider--no bulges or dips or angles that might get in the way of a comfortable seat. I don't recall him saying that you have to make sure that you have enough leather in order to make your rigging flush. From my perspective, I wanted the the seat at the inside thighs to be narrow and then flow out somewhat flat at the juncture of the bars and the seat--to pre-empt the log seat that riders complain about. In doing so, I wanted as little leather there as possible. I'm sure the reason it wasn't mentioned is because the author thought the reader would have enough common sense to anticipate that especially when he literally has a picture of cutting that built up area out to receive the rear rigging--well of course he was wrong. In addition, you mention that it should be full thickness. Well my rear inskirt rigging leather thickness at the junction of the bars and cantle will be 10/64ths (5/32). This does not really sound very substantial to me. Stohlman builds his inskirt rigging and doubles up the leather from the front rigging to about 4 inches before connecting to the rear bar/cantle seat. but does not go all the way up. I am assuming that he installs this insert in order to give more stiffness to the rigging, but I'm curious if there is a reason why he does not just go the whole distance to the rigging screws. This would make for a stronger rigging wouldn't it? It would also minimize the possibility of stretching wouldn't it? Am I missing another important point that will bite me in the near future? Furthermore, would it be too thick and "lumpy" and interfere with the lay of my rear seat jockeys if I do not let it be thinner in this area?

I have a few questions on building my first saddle. I'm at the point of fitting my rigging. I am building a rawhide tree with a 5 inch shovel cantle. I'm using the Stohlman books to build the seat up which I have done. I'm using a 3-way rigging plate--brass . My first question is 1) the Stohlman book shows that the ground seat is considerably built up and he actually notches out the back rigging into the seat at the junction of the seat/ bar as it joins the shovel cantle and it looks like he goes up about 1 1/2 inches). This is done in order to fit the leather rigging and making it flush with the thickness of the ground seat. My problem is that in shaving my fitted seat, I don't have nearly as thick a base (the amount of leather buildup) as Stohlman has. I'm afraid that I will not have enough of the leather rigging to make it flush with the rest of the ground seat contour and because I have it thinner, I'm afraid that in sinking the screws to hold the rigging in place, it will either be too thin or too thick. If too thick, that would mean that I would have to skive the leather to make it flush with the rest of the groundseat. Then the question comes up: A) what is the minimum thickness of the leather rigging in order NOT to compromise the strength of the saddle rigging. No one apparently addresses this. Put another way, how do you guys build up your Inskirt Riggings, and how do you tie into the ground seat/cantle juncture. How deep do you go in and where do you place your screws? How thick do you want your rigging in order to make sure that it does not stretch with stress?

Thanks so much DC and all, I will do as you say.

Hi all, I'm a newbie, and want to make a rattleskin belt. My problem is that I'm really not sure how to manage it. A few years ago I had some rattle skin in a box in the basement. When I went to use it, it completely disintegrated and all the scales fell into a neat little pile. So my question is do I have to handle it any differently than any other leather. Do I have to treat it in order to keep the scales from delaminating? Is this leather extremely fragile and requiring special maintenance? Much Obliged for any advice you can give me.

I'm not a saddle maker, but I am a reiner and what we like is to have a lower horn so it does not get in the way of our rein hand, since we ride with a low hand and a lot of loop in the rein and lighter bars so we can get closer to the horse. Depending on what part of the country you are, the saddles may be slightly different. I am East of the Mississippi River, so we ride Texas style as opposed to California/Vaquero style. Most of us in the East ride for pleasure meaning that we do not work on ranches and most of us do not rope so we do not need a heavy tree. We do not have as easy access to working cattle as other states do so reining is much more popular than Reined Cow Horse. We also like a rise to the saddle to sit the sliding stops easier--but not too much since our technique is to guide our horses with primarily leg pressure and it is very important for us to get in balance with the horse because the cue for our horses to slow down is not hand movement in the reins, but a slight rocking back on the hind to make the horse slow down when we do our small circles. Our horses have to ride between our legs, which means that their shoulders have to be straight up and their hind end behind their front or as we sometimes say-- tracking straight. If you are used to building a Charro saddle, I assume you usually have a flat seat with no rise. As far as swells are concerned, a moderate swell like the Association or Modified Association would be fine. As far as rigging is concerned, 7/8 or 3/4 is what I see most of. Not too much full doubles. Hope that help Compadre.

Hi Everyone: I'm a newbie and building my first saddle, a slick fork (8 inch fork) with a 5 inch cantle. In any case, I'm about to cover the fork, but I want to do a combination carving border with a standard basket weave stamping for the center. I'm really nervous about ruining the fork because from what I undersand, the fork is stamped after it is installed. Can anyone give me some advice as to how to stamp it without making stupid mistakes. For instance I'm concerned that the stamp won't track straight because of the curve of the fork. Furthermore, that the stamping will not be as deep as if it was done on a stone block because again, the curvature of the fork. Any advice/suggestions would be most appreciated.

Wow, this is an interesting Post, since I was thinking about buying a Steele Tree for my next saddle. By the way, I am a newbie working on my first saddle, and in reading this, I am surprised, since I also contacted Steele Saddle Tree company and wanted to purchase one of his trees, but I was told the model that I wanted to use to build was a tree that a manufacturer has exclusive rights on. So I askd him what tree were the Parellis using? And He indicated the tree that I was interested in. The Parellis have a very nice saddle and they are into these flexible bars. I did not talk to the owner, but the receptionist. According to her the trees are sent to Germany and that is where they are constructed. So. they are able to make it work somehow. But I sure would be interested in knowing how, because I already have my ground seat in, and I know exactly what you guys mean. Let me ask another question: What would happen if you made a three quarter seat or half seat like on the Sam Stagg rigging. Would that give a little more wiggle room in terms of not needing so much rigidity to get a ground steat to stablize? As an aside, I am from Wisconsin, and a lot of the Barrel Racing crowd in my area has gone and purchased these Flexible trees and really like them.