JAM

Thank you, Darcy, for your in-depth critique. All your points are well-taken and I will have them firmly in mind as I begin my next saddle - very helpful. About the custom tree thing, though... I know there is a lot of opinion about the advisability of custom-fitting trees, but I look at it this way: Most of the boots in a boot store are made to fit most of the buyers, but there are some people (like myself) who can't wear any (or very few) of the boots in a boot store - why should I be in pain trying to wear boots that most other people can wear? So I shop long and hard for boots that are comfortable (and keep them forever) - and I'm in heaven when I can afford custom boots made for me. It's the same with the tree. Most factory trees fit most horses, and there are a few horses that most factory trees don't fit. There is considerable difference between the Bowden tree that was supposed to fit this mare and the Dittmer tree that does fit her - much more than gullet width and hand-hole. More than that, Travis sent me the tree in bare wood so I could fit it on her and make final requests - more flare in the bar tips and a little shaved off the upper front bar tips. Yes, it's micro-fitting, but why should she be uncomfortable wearing a saddle just because it fits most horses? (And I think he might be incensed at the idea that he didn't do much to fit her...). The same holds true for the tree for my next saddle - a Nikkel tree for another horse that turns out to be also out of the normal 85% of horses - we did the measurements and photos and Rod made the tree, and it seems that this horse has a 95-degree bar angle (I knew she was broad-backed, and Bowden could not get it right) and much more rock than most horses. Again, I compared both Bowden trees that were supposed to fit her with the (gorgeous, work-of-art) Nikkel tree and there is a huge difference, both side-by-side and on her. Her own tree will make a difference to her and in her performance. And since I'm the saddlemaker, why not? I understand that in Europe there's a tradition that a horse has its own saddle and when the horse is sold, the saddle goes with the horse. No doubt they're English saddles and the stuffing conforms to the horse, but still the concept of fitting the saddle to the horse applies. Some day when I make saddles for other people they probably will not want to go the custom tree route because it takes a LONG time and costs more, but the idea that my two mares have saddles that fit them far better than factory trees makes the whole process even more worthwhile.

Here's my first saddle - thank you to everyone here who gave me advice while I built it, and to my oh-so-patient and humorous teacher, Bob Hickman of Hickman Saddlery in Post Falls, ID. It's 15-1/2", inskirt rig, on a Hometead Wade tree from Travis Dittmer in TX. The tree is wood, covered in Kevlar and carbon-fiber composite rather than rawhide (very lightweight), and custom fit for my horse. It's a full-double rig with short bars and skirts (she's a short-backed mare with mutton withers and long shoulder blades). The saddle fits her like a glove. My goals were (1) to fit the mare, and then (2) to build a comfortable, close-contact, lightweight saddle for me. It weighs 34 lbs with back cinch and cast aluminum stirrups. The ground seat was built-in - that's the way the Kevlar-covered trees are made - and the seat was so good to begin with that very little build-up was necessary - which leaves me sitting right down the tree and on her. The lovely skirt stitching was done by my teacher, Bob, because his big machine is just a little too much for me to handle (and I wanted this to look good). The front rigging rings are 8-1/4" below the bottom of the bars - thank you, Keith Siedel - and that drop is perfect because it gets cinch lumps below my knees so I never notice them. All critique is welcome - and thanks again to everyone who answered all my questions while I built it. Here are pix (I hope I did this right and they come through...) Julia Kelly McCormack Hill Leather

Thanks! Once again you've come through with a wealth of information. In reading all Kieth Seidel's previous posts (about anything and everything) I came across not only exactly what I needed to answer this question but a tone of other useful information, too. And it saved everyone a lot of time answering the same question over and over

I'm about to build a saddle for a mutton-withered horse whose commercial saddles tend to roll side-to-side. Needless to say, the tree was custom-built for her and fits her like a glove. I've decided to use an in-skirt rigging to make it as lightweight as possible (she's 14.3 HH and delicately built - and I HATE lifting a heavy saddle, even onto a short horse). Question: Would dropping the front (full) rigging lower help stabilize the saddle by sort of "wrapping" it around her more, or will it be a waste of leather and design effort?

WOW! All so very inventive! You've all just demonstrated that I'm not limited to the impossible-to-find large pieces of liner board and the thin plastic that the local plastics suppliers can't seem to duplicate. There's a whole world of creative possibilities! I would like to try the Crazy Carpets, but I can't find them in the States. Must be a Candian thing <ggg>.

Hi, all, What paper (or other media) do you cut your saddle-parts layout patterns from? And where do you get it?

A post-script: The most comfortable, all-around-usable saddle I've ever ridden in is my old Berney jumping saddle, so as an experiment yesterday I rode both my horses in that saddle with the stirrups let down long. Not only was it far and away more comfortable than any western saddle I have or have ever ridden in, it allowed me to sit the way I'm supposed to sit, and the horses moved better, and my back, butt, and knees didn't hurt when I was done. So I looked at that seat in light of what I've learned here, and saw that it's built like a "ladies' seat" should be built. It's kinda like a well-padded, slick-fork ladies' seat ranch saddle. So now I have a physical model to copy in building the seat in my soon-to-be-started saddle. I'll post the results here when I finally finish.

You're welcome, Todd! And thank you Hidemechanic (and everyone else). My lifelong background is jumpers, so when I started riding western three years ago, in standard commercial saddles, I felt very "perched" and the first thing that came to mind was "close contact" - I want to be part of my horse again, not sitting way up in the air just waiting to be dumped at the first spook or crow-hop or happy-dance. I've since come to realize that the "perched" feeling is precisely because my saddle doesn't fit me, not because of the inches between me and my horse. So, with all the help I've gotten here, my next saddle is going to fit me as well as my old jumping saddle.

Fantastic ideas - so helpful! Thanks!

Thanks, Denise - this was exactly the sort of thing I was looking for.

Thanks, Tosch - your link helped. I started this entertaining thread to find out how a ladies' seat differed from a men's seat - where one narrowed it and so forth. "Just sit in it" doesn't help as much as you'd think. Had a great conversation with Rod Nikkel who explained quite a lot, about making the ground seat flat under my pin bones and then dropping off quickly, and building up the center between thighs to make it feel narrower and more stable to a woman's anatomy - which shouldn't affect the close contact much, just give me a narrower feel so I don't feel like I'm sitting on a beach ball. I've got a direction now. And this was fun - thanks guys!

Hi, all - I want to make chinks from elk hide, but it's so pliable and stretchy that I don't look forward to cutting long fringe in it. Can anyone suggest "best" techniques for cutting long straight fringe in leather that pulls and stretches?

Lee Valley Tools - www.leevalley.com - sells a drum sander support system that turns a drill press into a drum sander with a bearing support at the bottom. One could probably either use or modify that tool, or make something similar.

I think in my jeans will be close enough

Wow! You are so very helpful! Actually molding a seat is about as specific as one can get. I'll have to try it and see. Thanks!

I'm about to build my first saddle and, being a woman, I want it to fit me well. I've read that some of you are really good at building a "ladies seat" and I'd like to know what differences/specifics I should be incorporating into my seat to make it work better for me than the average men's saddle? Is this info already written somewhere or incorporated into any makers' videos? Thanks in advance for any advice.