JAM

Antipaladin, I'm very interested in a hardwood burnisher like the one in your picture. Please let us know when and how we can purchase them from you when you get them made. Julia

Wow, I'm glad I asked! All good advice. Cool saddle, Steve - that's what I'm aiming for. That looks like a flat-plate rig, correct? ] And for my broad-backed, big-barreled horse, I guess I'd be wise to stick with a 7/8 or full double rig, since I know that works on her (and most horses).

Hi, all, I'm about to try building an old-timey all-day vaquero-style saddle similar to this one (drawn by Ernie Morris in his book El Vaquero - pg 23). Like most saddles in those days (I think), it has a centerfire rig. This saddle won't do any roping, just training, general riding and some trail riding. The cinch will be a mane-hair cinch which will stay where I put it, around the horse's middle. My question is: What disadvantages can you see to using the centerfire rig? Thanks, Julia

Another excellent suggestion - I'll try these things.

Oh - okay. Now I understand. A nylon webbing latigo would be thinner, but I can't bring myself to use them. Too non-traditional. But a good idea, nonetheless. Keith, I know you use 550 rings and I've always loved the look of your rigging - that's how I want to do mine (but this ring looked so cool in the Bork catalog <ggg>). This ring was a lot "flatter" than I expected once it was in the skirt. I want them round and open, like yours, so I'll go with the real 550 next time. Shaping the ring with an arc is not something I would have thought of (one of those arcane bits of saddlemaking technique) - but is a fantastic idea. Do you use an anvil or a vise? Tony - the off-side cinch billet is not lined, but is the doubled-over style (so there are always two layers of latigo on the off-side to match the two layers of latigo going through the near-side rig ring).

Thanks for all the tips - you are all so helpful to a beginner! I think I will try all of your ideas in order in least destructiveness and waste - first, the rigging hobble or slider strap (I've seen them on several old saddles - nylon seat belt strap? interesting idea... ), then a flat-plate rig over the existing bottom skirt, and then a complete skirt re-build. I will stop when the problem is fixed. If nothing else, I will learn a lot in the process. And fortunately it's winter so I will not miss the saddle to ride in. And I'm going to re-do the stirrup leathers, too - re-configuring them to half-leathers should be easy and relatively non-destructive (and make the saddle lighter, too). Julia

Art, Bruce, and Steve, thanks for your input. I thought about a slider strap as a quick fix, but can't figure out how to do it so it works. I'll look at it again. I think the ring is definitely too close to the bar - I didn't even think about that this time around. That goes on my list of things learned to think about in future saddles! And I think you're right, new skirts are called for. I hate to waste perfectly good skirts - maybe I'll try taking off the top layer (the one that attaches to the top of the tree) and the rings, and try a flate-plate rig over the existing bottom skirt. I've never done a flat-plate (I really like in-skirts best and would like to specialize in them until I master them) but I'm told by some cowboy outfitters that flate-plate is the "gold standard". It may look odd (or not), but drawdown stands are for learning, right? Julia

Hi, all, The stirrups in my saddle don't easily swing fully forward because the leathers are stopped by the latigo and cinch billet (as you can see in the photos). The rigging is (supposed to be) 7/8, and the rigging rings are a bit high because I made very small skirts. My question is: What can I do structurally to prevent this problem in future saddles? And is there anything I can do to fix the problem in this saddle? Thanks, Julia

I made my first saddle with a carbon-fiber/kevlar covered tree - over wood - and it was very lightweight. I anticipated difficulty nailing into it, but really there was no difficulty at all. Julia

Does anyone know where I can find batwing (and shotgun) chaps patterns (other than the Tandy package, which I have)?

Thank you, all of you - I was afraid to post the pics of the knife cuts because they are unorthodox. I do them all freehand. Just lots of S's and C's. I do the S's (the scoll-y centerlines) first, then I go back and do C's down one side of all the S's and then do all the C's down the other side - because it takes a slightly different finger twist to do the other side (if that makes sense - you just need to try it). I do all the same kind of cut in one pass, because my fingers get the rhythm of that cut, then do all of the next kind of cut. I have trouble following drawn patterns, and I cannot yet make a decent circle at all (still need practice there). What I do absolutely incorrectly is: I start my cuts lightly near the stem of the S and finish the twist to the outside deep - which tends to make fishooks on the ends of the cuts - which is where the modeling tools and tiny narrow pear shader come in - they erase the fishooks. I really like using a 1/4" angle blade for all of these cuts, and then I go in again wherever it looks a little plain and add tiny filler cuts with a 1/8" straight blade (from LW knives). In the end, I want it to dance and flow. And the great thing about "abstract expressionist" knife cuts is that, with another cut or two, you can make any mistake into a design element! <ggg> As you can see, I just doodle on every piece of scrap in my workshop. I've tried to emulate others' work (I very much admire what I've seen at Jeremiah Watt's and Clair Mullin's websites, and wish I was that good). I like the color, too - it's Wickett & Craig leather, with probably three generous coats of neatsfoot oil and then tankote over all. Julia

Well, the skirts were done wrong and then fixed (same as on my first saddle - my teacher does flat-plate rigs, and in-skirts are very much out of his comfort zone). The skirts were initially made to ride under the tree, and when I pointed out that they needed to attach to the top of the tree, we added a top skirt. These pictures show the original (bottom) skirt, with a plug behind the rigging ring (I don't know why), and the plug along the bottom around the blocked tree bars. Then we added a top skirt to the whole thing, with a back rigging dee hung from the top skirt (like one in Al Stohlman's book) so it tugs directly down on the rear tree bar. It's a little unusual, I think, but it works. My future saddles will be on my own, and I'll have to think through how to do in-skirts the right way from the beginning <ggg>. Yes, the front cinch is VERY cool - mane hair, from Dorothy Rogers at California Classics (www.calclassics.net - an all-vaquero shop which is my favorite). As you use it, it fills with horsehair, which makes it very comfortable for the horse, and it doesn't slip-n-slide. In fact, between the cutom-fitted tree and the mane-hair cinch, I ride with my cinch barely snug at all and never have any slippage or roll-around problems.

Here's my second saddle - it's got minor problems which I'm sure experienced saddlers will find immediately: skirts were cut to my "small, round" paper pattern and then got shorter in length after blocking, so they're just a bit too short in back; the rear jockeys weren't cut quite right so they don't suck down the way I'd like... but the tree fits my horse like a glove (thanks to premier treemaker Rod Nikkel), and the seat is perfect. After my quest for information about how to build a ladies' seat in earlier posts, and at least a month of dithering, building up and carving down, sitting in with and without the seat cover on (the seat cover makes a difference in how the seat feels), I finished the saddle and rode in it - and it works! The tooling is just swivel knife cuts. I haven't taken the time to learn and practice real tooling/carving other than basketweave yet, and really love just cutting freehand with my swivel knives (Henley, LW, Old Smoothie, Barry King...). I don't do it correctly (I cut backwards and any good leather carver would admonish me severely) but now it's my habit and personal style... it's nowhere near as good as the professional decorative cuts I've seen in other saddles, but it's okay if you don't look too closely. The best ones are in the rear cinch, which I cut last (and which will be hidden when I ride <ggg>), and in the back cinch I used modeling tools and a really narrow smooth pear shader from Barry King to add some dimension. I didn't originally intend to cut the entire seat, but it's kind of addictive and once I started I just couldn't stop. Anyway, here's my second saddle (all critiques and advice are welcome):

I see by the dates on earlier posts that I am way late in discovering this thread, and the sharpening info is terrific and so useful. I wanted to add my two-cents' worth about honing to keep that razor edge on the blade. To keep my knives cutting leather like it's butter, I use a hard felt wheel (leevalley.com) dressed with the green compound, on a buffer that's mounted backwards (so the wheel is spinning away from me over the top). It takes a little practice to get the knack of it - but I eyeball the angle (with practice you just know how to stand and hold the knife to get the angle you need so you don't need to eyeball it anymore) and keep the edge of the blade sighted down over the wheel's spindle (if that makes sense) so I have good pressure directly on the edge of the blade. Then I use one or two fingers of my free hand on the body of the blade to lightly press the edge of the blade onto the wheel while I move it from one corner to the other. I hone my swivel knife blades the same way.

I'm thinking about adding a clicker to my shop - has anyone tried Weaver's new manual clicker? And what do you think of it? And has anyone built their own clicker? And how did you do it?

Keith, what is a lip knife?

Yes, I will post a full report as soon as I get one and give it a whirl.

For sale: A Hought/James leather and rawhide cutter/beveler. It can cut strips from the hide, then cut the strips into strings, and bevel the strings at either 45 degrees or 30 degrees. Uses injector-type razor blades. Very well made and easy to use. Retails for $350 - asking $300 obo. Here are pix, please ask any questions.

So, as a confirmed tool-a-holic, where/how can I get this?

I have Gail Hought's cutter and want to try Bryan Neubert's, but can't afford to own both (they're both pricey), so if anyone is interested in buying my perfect-condition Hought cutter at a used price, please contact me... Am I allowed to do this here? Or is there another place on Leatherworker.net to post equipment and tools for sale or trade?

I'm going to build a new, bigger (4'x8') layout and cutting table, and I was wondering what other leatherworkers use (and like) for a surface? If you use plastic - which I'm inclined to do - what kind do you use?

I pick up Master's at Tandy(the Leather Factory) in Spokane, WA - it's not on the shelves, but they keep it in the back room for commercial (tax ID) customers only, so you have to ask for it. It's probably at other Tandy/Leather Factory stores, also. Julia

Thanks, Rod - great idea. I've considered that, and now you've motivated me to actually DO it before I upholster the tree. Before I upholstered my Dittmer tree, I put it on the mare for whom you made your tree, and it fit reasonably well (better than the Bowden QH or Full QH trees) although just not as "perfectly" as her own tree. But I use my new saddle on both mares now and they're both happy. And thanks for the link to Dennis' site. Julia

Good questions. Greg - I contacted Dennis about his profiling system a year ago - told him I wanted them and he said they were not quite in production yet. I've never heard back from him again. I would like to have that system but he's been too hard to find. Art - This saddle is a roughout seat only because my fiance thinks that this mare will someday be his backup heeler, and he wanted a roughout seat in her saddle. I built the ground seat for me because it will be a long time before he ever ropes on her (he lives three states away and already has a primo roping horse), and he'll probably like the seat fine as long as it's roughout I personally have only owned Crates saddles with padded seats, and the ledge and stitching at the edge of the padded seats give me dreadful blisters unless I ride with one of those sheepskin seat-savers (the whoopy-cushion). No doubt the problem is the factory-made saddle, but now I have an aversion to padded seats. I've ridden in other saddles that were well-made, with hard seats, and had no problems. My philosophy is that if the seat is made well it doesn't need padding. Padding can be used to hide flaws or make a generic (or bad) ground seat acceptable to more riders. My next saddle will be a Buster Welch reiner with hard, smooth seats (because you can do pretty tooling on the smooth leather seat!). You gotta go with what your wife wants, but see if you can get her a ride in a well-made saddle with a hard seat - she might decide she likes it the cowboy way! I think if the ground seat is built for her rather than for a man, she won't need the padding - but preferences die hard.

Thanks, Darc - now we're on the same page. Having seen the difference in quality I will never use factory trees. either - the handmades are worth the extra bucks. And I will be careful not get too "oddball" with future saddles I make for sale, thank you for your advice. These first two are for me and for my mares, and I doubt I'll ever sell them because they are my first saddles, for better or for worse, and these two horses are mine for life (and if not, their saddles go with them with full explanations). I had a thought - haven't fully followed through on it yet - but I've made plaster casts of the undersides of both trees, using plaster-impregnated gauze strips for modeling work. I'm going to try coating them with fiberglass and resin (Bondo car stuff) to stiffen them, so I'll have a model of the tree in each saddle for better fitting that saddle on a horse. The idea (you've probably guessed) is that when buyer is interested in a saddle, we look at the tree model for that saddle and see how well it fits their horse (and/or use it as the starting point for ordering the right tree specs for that horse). What do you think? Am I getting too anal about tree fit? Or do you think this might be a good thing (if I can make the models work)? Julia