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Thanks, it helps a lot as I wrongly presumed there must have been a different way to secure the thread to the needle with the thinner stuff. Had no idea it could still be pierced in the same way as the thicker stuff. One of the reasons I thought this was because I thought the strength of the thread would be compromised and maybe snap as you're pulling it through the leather.

Thanks, Simon David, I didn't make myself very clear. I wasn't meaning how is the stitching finished, I meant how is the thinner thread secured to the needle before stitching. As I say, with the tiger thread and flat waxed stuff, it's easy to push the needle through the strands of the thread to form the noose knot, but how would it be done with thread that's too thin to get the needle through?

Thanks. So the bigger the first number, the thinner the thread? Rather than start a new thread, can I quickly ask how the thinner thread is tied off when saddle stitching? I know that for the tiger thread/flat waxed thread, the needle is fed through the thread itself, but if the thread is too thin for this, then what? Do we simply tie a knot in it?

I've been using 0.8mm tiger thread, but find it just a little too thick for my small wallet projects. Someone said I should try 18/4 waxed linen, but I'm afraid these numbers mean nothing to me. I understand one of the numbers refers to the number of strands or something, but what I need to know when I'm buying thread is how thick it is. Seems obvious to me, but apparently I'm on my own, judging my how many manufactures give the X/X measurements. So, can someone please explain what I need to be searching for if I want strong, thin hand sewing thread (0.6mm or under). Thanks.

Ah well, turns out this leather merchant is a cobblers supplier and only has the really think stuff. I knew it was too good to be true

Funnily enough I got a similar response from the upholsterers. They said they had plenty of vinyl but very little leather. I'm trying to stay optimistic about this other guy, but I half suspect that when I call tomorrow my finding will be similar to yours, Joe; either leather that's too thick or scraps too small to be of any use.

Today I called at an upholsterers in my local town centre that I'd never noticed before, to ask if they had any scraps. He said they had little dealings with leather and that what they did have wouldn't suit my needs. He pointed me towards a cobblers across the street and told me to ask there. I did, but again drew a blank as all his leather comes pre-cut. This guy in turn told me about a shop a few streets away, so off I went to take a look. When I got there it was closed and I felt sure by the condition of the outside and the grotty windows that it hadn't been active for many a year. However, I called at a house opposite and the guy says the place is still active and that he'll be in tomorrow. There's a small sign in the window that says, "Leather Merchant", and I must confess the thought of having somewhere so close by, where I can go and inspect the leather before I buy is very exciting. I'll update after I've checked him out tomorrow.

If anyone has any veg tan off-cuts / panels in black or dark brown (2oz / 1mm) I'd like to discuss purchasing. The off-cuts need to measure at least 20 X 20cm for my planned project. Thanks in advance.

I'm still confused. Is this an in-joke?

Are you drunk, JLSleather? I haven't understood a thing you've said in either of your posts. Maybe it's cos I'm new around here

No, it's a straight awl, or do they call them scratch awls? I chose a scratch awl because I don't like the traditional slanting saddle stitch. I wasn't aware using a straight stitch could create a problem. As I say above, it's a straight awl (no taper after the initial point) and is about 2mm wide. For the Tiger thread I use 002 John James needles. Also, in that I'm using a ruler to mark the holes, is there an easy way to work out the distance between each hole for, say, 10spi?

Prompted by what a couple of posters have said in another thread, I'd like to ask for some advice on my SPI. For the wallet I just made I used some bonded nylon that was thin enough to fit through the eye of a fairly small sewing needle. I paced my holes 5mm apart which is apparently quite course for such thin thread, but here's my problem. I know the correct way is to mark the holes with a wheel or prong iron before pushing through with an awl, but in the absence of such tools I used a metal ruler which I think worked fairly well (straight and evenly spaced holes were achieved). Tomorrow I will be making the same wallet, but using some 0.8mm Tiger thread, so I guess I'll do the holes at the same distance (the thicker thread will be more suited to 5mm spaced holes, yes??) Now what I need to know, is how do you get the holes closer together without risking them breaking through to each other as you push the awl through? I've experimented with the Tiger thread on some scraps, and I had to make fairly big holes in order to get the thread and needle through (baring in mind the thread has to go through the same hole twice). Maybe it's because I'm not using veg tan, but I just don't see how I can get the holes that close to each other without them breaking through. The awl I use is, I'm guessing, about as thin as they come, and I have to push it quite high up the shaft to get the holes big enough.

Because I'm still learning and I don't know these things? The wallet I did earlier was stitched with bonded nylon thin enough to fit through the eye of a regular sewing needle. The holes were paced at 5mm apart and I don't think it looks particularly odd. As I've already said, maybe it's because I'm using crap / the wrong leather, but there's no way I could put the sewing holes any closer together without risking a break-through as I push the awl through.

Thanks, Matt, I'll PM you just as soon as I've typed this. I'm reluctant to go tighter than 5mm because I'm afraid the holes will split into one another as I push the awl through.

Just a couple of quickies; What is the thinnest tiger thread available? And what kind of thread would you recommend if I wanted to go thinner than the thinnest Tiger thread? I found a seller on Etsy who has it at 0.6mm, but don't know if this is the thinnest. The way I mark my holes is unorthodox, but it works. I hold a steel ruler along my stitch line and then mark the holes with an awl at 5mm intervals. I find that this way I can move the ruler about until I get equal spaces at either end. Anyway, I'm babbling. The point I'm getting to is that I like a thin stitch line and am wondering what's the best thin thread to go for if Tiger thread doesn't go thin enough.

Hi, Matt. I'm about 6 miles outside Manchester. I've already done some digging and found a number of UK suppliers (even the nearest is a good couple of hours drive away). Ordering from these people is a problem as they don't seem to want to entertain anyone who's looking for a few small panels or good sized scraps as I am. I emailed one of them and they replied saying that if all I wanted was scraps or small panels, I'd have to go to the store and look through their off-cuts. Unfortunately I'm not in a position to start buying full cuts. The £75+ price you quote is about £65 more than I'm in a position to spend right now. In fact, even if I had it I'd be reluctant to spend that kind of money on a hobby.

Seconded! I'm very flattered BigGriff, as you say I'm in the UK and leather supplies are... uum, non existent, really. At least in my part of the country. It looks like I might have to wait until mid-July when I'll have the funds to get myself some of this veg tan ordered from the US. Just in case it is something I can stretch funds to now, can anyone point me to some sites that offer thin veg tan at a decent price??

Well either he's lying or he's exceptionally good, as the description on the minimalist wallet site says it's handmade from a single piece. Wouldn't the divide between the two colours be as simple as using a guard of some sort to make a neat line between the two? When I've watched people dying leather they normally use like a sponge thing on a stick. If the sponge is good and square I wouldn't think it would be too difficult to get a neat divide. Then again I've never dyed leather so I could just be talking through my arse.

camano, thanks, that did return better results. I've used a lot of the pull-up stuff, although I'm not sure of it's quality. BigGriff, thanks for the explanation of the pall wallet's construction. I can see clearly how it was done now. I really love the two-tone effect, but it amazes me how he managed to make such neat holes going through four layers of leather. When I'm constructing my wallets I feel as though I'm treating them really roughly; pulling and folding and prodding holes so much that when I've finished they look like they've been in use for three years already. But when you look at the pall wallet, it looks like it hasn't even been touched by human hands. How does he do that? humperdingle, PM sent.

Thanks, treybecca. Google doesn't seem to like your wording, as "3oz oil stoned hide" doesn't bring up any relative results. I know the edging is bad, but I can't afford better leather right now. Come mid July, however, I will have funds to buy some proper stuff and maybe even some tools.

Thanks. Incidentally, the cowhide I mention is pull-up... don't know if that's the proper name for it. As I've said before, the reason I've avoided veg-tan is because it seems to be very difficult to get it pre-dyed. Sure, I could dye it myself, but as far as I can gather from other posts on the subject, it doesn't stop there because it would then need to be sealed and whatnot... this is just more expense that I don't have the funds for. camano, not exactly sure what thread I used. It's just some nylon stuff my mum had. I'm a fairly strong guy, but I can't snap it with my bare hands, so figured it would be suitable. I do have some 0.8mm tiger thread, but it gives too 'chunky' a finish for my tastes. If I had made this, I would be as pleased as punch. I love the look and design (yes I know the stitching is very obvious, but it works). Perhaps someone could tell me what type and thickness of leather he's used. It says in the description on the website that it's made from a single piece of leather, but I just can't fathom the construction.

Thanks again everyone. Just about to go take some snaps. I'll try and put some indicators on some of the pics to show the areas I'm unhappy with / don't like. Images 1 and 2: (as 3 and 4) but made entirely from the 1mm sheepskin. Edge slightly better, but the floppy / soft properties of the sheepskin creates a 'flimsy' and cheap appearance. Image 3: Card holder with cash strap. One piece of 1.5mm cowhide folded in half to form main pocket. Frequent use card holder pocket on front, cash strap on back. These additional parts are made from 1mm sheepskin. Image 4: Shows the edge of the cowhide card holder. Glue can be seen between the leather's edge and stitching. Don't like the untidy look of the edges. Images 4 and 5 are about the closest I've come to success. They are made from 1.5mm cowhide and elastic. I used my mum's sewing machine (which just about managed the job). It looks okay-ish on the surface, but is untidy inside where I had to construct elastic loops half way down the main body of the elastic, in order to stop the cards falling right through (the main elastic is just one loop which is stitched to the front and then fed through slats cut into the back piece of leather. Also, getting the correct leather is proving almost impossible. My nearest Tandy is 150 miles away and I don't know of anywhere else that sells leather. This means my only option is online sellers and the images they provide. If I get leather that gives me the firmness I want, it's too thick. If I get leather that gives me the thickness I want, it's too soft and floppy. I'm not in a financial position to start going to tanneries to ask them to thin leather for me, so please don't suggest that as an option.

So much for going to bed :D Thanks, camano. I would have to read back through my early posts, but if I ever gave the impression that this was going to be easy and that I could do it better than anyone else and without help, then that certainly wasn't my intention. I would never be so arrogant to believe such a thing. Also, if I offended anyone with the 'homemade' comment, then again that wasn't my intention and I apologise to anyone who read it that way. What I did mean, however, was that I suspect I'm not your average leather enthusiast in terms of taste. I think for most, it is the typical leather 'styles' that appeal; the heavy saddle stitching, the intricate tooling and stamping, thick burnished edging. But my tastes are different and I don't really think it's fair to say that this fact makes me a snob. I like leather, but only as a material. I like it's feel and durability, but I don't like leather products per se. If I could come up with a stitchless design, I would, because I don't particular like to see stitching - especially heavy thread hand stitching (hence my thread from last week asking if gluing alone would suffice). As I've already in this thread, I will post up my atrocities tomorrow.

Thanks, everyone, for the encouragement and advice. I'm not going to address everyone's post (it's 3:35 in the morning here in the UK and I need my bed). Tom, if by edging you mean the way the layers of the leather sit together along the edges, then I would certainly say you've hit upon an area that really does make my finished pieces look very tatty. Truth is I don't really know how to finish the edges. I always seem to end up with horrible yellow glue showing between the leather where I've glued before stitching. I also have a couple of those beveling blade things, but I don't like the way it exposes the naked leather underneath because it then contrasts against the rest of the wallet which is dyed. Plus the fact that I struggle making the bevel look neat, especially when you come to a section that has more than one layer of leather. It's also worth mentioning that I don't dye the leather, I buy it already dyed which means I have no way of dying the edges or bevels to the same colour. shtoink, some of those jobs by hunio are certainly very nice and do have that nice clean 'shop bought' look I'm seeking. WScott, lack of patience (in terms of the learning curve) is one of my biggest faults. I just don't have it in me to spend decades learning a craft that is, ultimately, a hobby I will probably grow bored of at some point in the future. To those who suggest I post up a pic and links to the kind of thing I'm hoping to achieve, I will certainly do so (probably tomorrow). For now, though, I can say that most of the stuff on this website serves as my inspiration (especially the Atelier Pall - Double Snap Vertical Wallet):http://www.minimalwallet.net/ Thanks again for all the replies.

This might seem like a rather odd question, but at what point is it OK to sit back and say, "OK, this is never going to happen." ? I've been trying to make a minimalist wallet for months now, had dozens of disasters and spent God only knows how much on leather - most of which has been wasted. I set out to make a stitchless one because I was afraid leather stitching would be too difficult. When I failed at that I tried using my mum's dress making machine to make one with stitching. That too failed because my mum's machine wasn't up to the task. So then I accepted the fact that the only way this was going to happen was if I had a go at stitching. To my surprise I've taken to this far better than I thought I would and am not totally unhappy with the results. But I'm still not happy with any of the wallet's I've made. I ditched the idea of coming up with an original concept, because quite literally every conceivable wallet design has now been done - particularly since the minimalist / slim wallet exploded onto the scene through the Kickstarter funding platform a few years ago, but my efforts so far look tatty and homemade. Now I accept that many leather enthusiasts aim for the 'homemade' look, but it's not what I'm trying to achieve. I want a clean professional look. I want to make something that looks like it was bought from a shop... something classy rather than the Frankenstein's monsters I've built. It's now got to the point where my original idea of making half a dozen of these wallets and selling them on Etsy, has now become an obsession that I need to free myself of. I have no desire whatsoever to make any more than one of these damn things now, but I'm now reaching the point where I don't know if I've got it in me to even do that.