Tannin
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Posts posted by Tannin
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I'm still a relative beginner myself but I enjoy the challenge of using my large NOS George Barnsley "round knife". I use mine mainly for cutting out larger pieces of leather currently & I have tried skiving with it. I strongly recommend that you read Al Stohlman's book Leathercraft Tools first, it has a lot of safety/technique info. that may save your finger tips. It also provides sharpening advice.
... The other reason I really do like the Stanley as mentioned, no sharpening needed.
Using a round knife and blade sharpening both require skills/experience, which no doubt presents yet another hurdle to beginners. But once beyond the basics, learning news skills like this could be looked on as a welcome challenge - an opportunity to improve & grow. And sharpening especially is such a useful skill: Embrace blade sharpening
[Of course, for professionals, time is money, so whatever makes most effective use of your time. Don't let tradition hold you back.]
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Real nice design - interesting too with the slip loop & quick release clip. Very crisp decoration & implementation too. Finding a nice, good, thick, strong, quality leather guitar strap can be surprisingly difficult - seems like the dobro players must have been hogging them!
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I bought the Barnsley one I mentioned above. It seems pretty good, although I have not dared to sharpen it yet. It cut through the sofa when I dropped it on it. So its quite sharp already.
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Owch. You took that in good humour. An important lesson expensively learnt - at least it wasn't your finger. I had a similar incident myself recently, albeit with an extremely sharp carving axe - it cut through its protective edge guard and slashed a faint line on a car seat, which some weeks later split open
- annoying too as I normally keep all tools secured in the boot/trunk. I've since designed and made a more substantial edge guard for it I think folk in the UK (unlike, say, Sweden) have become accustomed to blunt knives & tools and are unprepared for what very sharp tools can do (and I include myself in that). I no longer allow people to handle my carving axes because, in general, I find they handle them with insufficient regard for their own safety - drop one of these on your foot & you will loose toes. My family have asked me to inform them whenever I sharpen kitchen knives now because, inevitably they or a guest cut themselves if not warned.I suggest making a protective sheath (with a centre welt for the cutting edge) for your round knife a.s.a.p take a look at this thread: http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=56687
Make sure you read all of the head knife sections is Al Stohlman's "Leathercraft Tools" booklet (I found it cheaper to order it from Amazon.com in the USA than to buy it from Amazon.co.uk or other UK suppliers - although I think LePrevo might have it at reasonable price) - it might save a finger.
Then, if it doesn't need sharpening, strop it on piece of leather glue to a piece of wood, with compound/polish if you have some (see Al's booklet or youtube for various techniques) - be careful when sharpening & stropping. The bevels should shine, near mirror finish, for most effective cutting.
Proceed with caution...it's a little scary and it demands your full attention but it is surprisingly versatile and effective.
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Wicked Welts, I've seen quite a lot of vintage woodworking tools, including many old sets & boxes of such on ebay (in the UK) and at car boot sales, but yours looks particularly good/old/consistent. The various cabinet scrapers in the middle can be quite pricey. The classic #80 is common and still made by several companies (e.g. Stanley & Faithfull) yet secondhand they often sell for more than their current new price (current new price ~£15-£28). The right-hand scraper looks like it might be an early #80; it looks to me like it has oval thumb nuts on both sides - those are earlier, rarer & slightly more desirable and so usually sell for a bit more than normal. The other 2 cabinet scrapers in your picture are, I think earlier designs than the #80, rarer and consequently more valuable (at least they are in England) - although, from a practical perspective, the US Woodworker/Editor/Author Chris Schwarz reckons the #80 is all anybody should ever need.
The nice old wooden spoke shave in the image above those (more angular than the usual ones I often see) could likely be used to skive leather - I use mine for wood & leather.
At the top of the picture featuring the collection of cabinet scrapers is a Routing Plane - these went out of fashion but are now very much back in vogue, mainly I suspect due to the influence of Paul Sellers on youtube. Consequently complete or near complete ones normally achieve prices in the £28-£78-ish sort of range in the UK for the metal ones, rather less for wooden ones ("old woman's tooth") unless they are "special" (e.g. a lot of good brass work & crisp lines).
The dado-planes/router-planes (whatever they are called), often sell individually and in sets on ebay - usually cleaned & waxed, prices vary. I can't help thinking there are more of these in the world than people who want to use them. Ditto the big wooden plane: they look as if they should be valuable but I regularly see them not selling for £2-£6 at car boot sales - nobody wants them or knows how to use them anymore. That might change though: Paul Sellers has a youtube video showing how to tune them and basically he reckons they are as good as modern planes, they've been in use for a millennium and were really only replaced by modern metal planes because of industrialized production, product promotion & consumerism - rather than any actual problem with them! :D
That last tool looks familiar. I'm pretty sure I saw something like that recently on youtube.- most likely on an old Woodwright's Workshop episode - I recall thinking how odd, complicated, rare and expensive it looked, although for the life of me I cannot now recall what it was used for. Some kind of early plough-plane (US: plow plane) perhaps.
Part of me thinks those tools should be kept together for a museum but, even though old, there are many much older woodworking tools still in regular use. And I can't help thinking you would get more money (and perhaps the tools would get more use) if they were sold/auctioned off individually. There are folk who will restore, fettle and use those tools, and keep them working for another generation. There is a little "magic" in using old tools, especially if they have been used by several generation before.
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#1 looks like a hook knife used for making spoons, etc. to me too. Was your great grandfather Scandinavian or Welsh? [Alternatively but less likely, it might be a crook knife if you have some native American ancestory - although I think they usually use longer more shaped handles as their tool is held & used differently.]
As a carving tool, I suppose it might have some application to shoe/clogg making - e.g. perhaps to clean out the inside of a clog (was your great grandfather Dutch/French/Northern English/Welsh?) or perhaps curving the upper side of a wooden foot-shaped former? But perhaps, like many of us today, he just liked to make stuff - whether it be from wood or leather.
#7 is a spoke shave. Spoke shaves are normally used for woodworking but can be used for skiving leather - I think there might even be some made specifically for leather working (but perhaps I dreamt it!). There is a website that suggests some modification to a regular Stanley spoke shave to make it better suited for leatherwork but I have found that unnecessary, I have several old spoke shaves and they work rather well on leather without any modification.
#10 yes a drill. I have made several items with 3 layers of 5mm saddle leather: while it is possible to do this using an English/French-style pricking iron, marking each layer, and then using an awl to line them up & open the slots out I find that technically quite difficult and time-consuming. Instead, what I do now is to mark my stitch locations with a pricking iron (a wheel could be used instead) and then drill it with a tiny Dremel-style drill: much quicker, simpler & tidier (for me). Sole leather is, I believe, chosen for its toughness & some shoes/boots use fairly thick leathers - perhaps your great grandfather was thinking along similar lines?
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Just re-visiting this thread as I have just purchased a vintage J. Dixon Double Head Knife. Wow, oldtoolsniper, you really did do an amazing job restoring that round knife - more like an upgrade
Fortunately the one I got doesn't need much work - probably just sharpening and perhaps some attention to surface corrosion/pitting. Would appreciate any thoughts/advice/suggestions on how to proceed*:
This one is just 3" across and 6" long in total - so smaller & the end corners "tighter" angled than my 5" head knife (which I am enjoying learning to use - scary but it focuses the mind & demands boldness). The handle is somewhat longer & simpler than the current model - perhaps quite old?
*BTW I now have a 4" soft polishing wheel kit that came with several different grinding/polishing compounds (green, blue & red - & I have my own white compound too) - which I could use, if appropriate(?). In the UK, removing patina can drastically reduce the value of old stuff - so I need to get the right balance between this being my working tool and it being a piece of our shared history.
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Vintage medical/military sterilizing (with tool-holder - possibly for sterlizing syringe needles?):
The above spirit burner(/spirit lamp) is mine now. I have added 38mm wick - which is an excellent fit - to the bent metal wick holder which fits in the main slot, shown above. I have come across another common use for such burners: as heaters for Victorian/Edwardian curling tongs! However I did see one that had German WWII regular army markings, which was presumably for medical use rather than hair curling. Here is another:
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:D That's a nice one. I have a couple of "jet lighters" but mine were both v. cheap (£1 & £3 I think). One looks like a regular disposable lighter but has a jet flame - v. handy when its windy outside. The other is a bigger, more powerful version off ebay, which has a regular mode as well - prob. a good one for the workshop (or for fancy cooking?). Somebody also gave me a one of their old Zippo lighters (c. 1980's) which works well* & might also do the task. At the back of my mind, I probably had in mind that I might be able to use them for heating leather tools - so interesting to hear that it works. I don't smoke but find lighters handy in the garden/workshop/house/on holiday/fishing/.... Unsurprisingly smokers know the in & outs of lighters better than most.
*Youtube has useful videos on Zippo lighters.
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TinkerTailor :D Yes, you are the Evel Knievel of leathercraft! Having asked the seller's advice (he specializes in wicks & paraffin lamps), I thought it would be disrespectful to ignore it - and tempting fate! My record with glass jars in my garage workshop is bad. Actually I wouldn't dare use a spirit lamp in there - too many petrol/gas cans & the like nearby. However, one of the above links shows a glass-free homemade spirit burner, which uses a metal shoe polish tin - might be worth a try.
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BTW I also came across a small, vintage, German spirit burner on ebay - normally used for keeping food warm I think but listed as "possibly" medical. All metal, it had a long tube with holes in for the wick & included a lever-operated snuffer cylinder that slide up the wick tube; it also included a separate metal cap. Will try to find an image, interesting design.
Also, just came across this rather novel tiny/minimalist copper spirit lamp with filler syringe on ebay:
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FYI I was pleasantly surprised to win the medical sterilizer alcohol burner pictured on the previous page on ebay. It is smaller than I expected (which is nice) - just 3" long x 1.5" wide x 1" deep when closed up, 6" long when opened out. I've ordered some standard 1.5"/38mm flat lamp-wick for it, after taking advice, which should be a very good fit. Will probably need to fill it using a syringe, mini-funnel or similar device - fortunately I already have both, left over from previous projects.
Not sure yet whether it will be good for heating leather tools: 1.5"/38mm might be too much heat or too long of a flame and/or it might burn too much meths too fast- TBD. However, the built-in tool rest is perfect for supporting my cheap but good Chinese/Asian screw crease, supporting the end just above the wick holder. However, not quite so good with the deeper curve of my heavier, Joseph Dixon crease, which almost touches the wick holder - but it should work well enough with with both.
I was going to buy some round wick as well, so that I could try making my own preserve/salsa jar lamp but the wick seller advised against it:
"wick... needs to be a tight fit to prevent Flame creep, for the same reason the wick needs to be long enough to fill the reservoir, you don't need Meths fumes in there. I would not advise making a spirit burner out of Glass, Meths burns very hot and the vapour is invisible if it builds up inside the jar !!!, this is why the Tank on your burner is small and Shallow."
I opted to heed his advice.
awharness, you just reminded me, I have a propane gas ring on the side of my propane gas BBQ which I could use. Possibly overkill/wasteful fuel but conveniently situated &still probably cheaper than meths :D.
BTW If I were to buy a new spirit burner now, I think I would go for the £7 stainless steel dental burner with 2 screw caps: metal to avoid breakage risk (& possibly subsequent fuel fire), two holes to allow venting/refilling without need to mess about with the wick, & caps to allow adjustment/sealing/extinguishing of the flame.
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<p>Home made spirit lamp - another variant: <a data-ipb="nomediaparse" href="http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-make-an-alcohol-lamp-for-home-microbiology-/">http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-make-an-alcohol-lamp-for-home-microbiology-/</a></p>
<p>Useful tips for modifying/fault-finding a spirit lamp (I kid you not!): https://www.mccrone.com/mm/how-to-makemodify-and-use-an-alcohol-lamp/</p>
<p> </p>
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Turns out we do have a couple of small Kerr jars but the metal lids are all missing - wife threw the lids out because they went rusty!
Actually we do also have a couple of short (Doritos) Salsa jars in use in the kitchen at the moment - amazing what you can get in the UK these days
, although Mexican food is still a bit expensive here Hi Bill, that looks like a nice one, although haven't seen that model for sale "this side of the pond". I know what you mean - almost everything glass that I have taken into my garage workshop has soon ended broken on the floor.
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Ah, so it was not Graham Kerr - just a coincidence that we re-discovered both at the same time in Seattle! My apologies to all.
(I just put a strike line through that bit of my earlier post to avoid future confusion.)BTW This is the kind of thing I meant by "Dental spirit burner":
And this is the glass jeweler's variety mentioned:
The v. cheap (£3) HK version: 
The "Japan" version (used in schools?):
Vintage medical/military sterilizing (with tool-holder - possibly for sterlizing syringe needles?):
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Good point cgleathercraft, need to keep things clean, soot-free.
TinkerTailor, that looks great. I was picturing a much taller jar, that looks nice & stable. The relatively wide metal top should help keep things safe too. BTW Mason jars are usually called Kilner jars or preserve jars in the UK. I lived near Seattle for a while, there we had Kerr jars,
which I think are named for the English TV chef Graham Kerr (better known in the UK as "the Galloping Gourmet"), who lived somewhere nearby in WA, USA.I'm guessing your Mason jar is probably a US half pint size. Looks like you can get half pint Kerr jars in the UK too. Actually, I think we might already have some...
BTW I like your signature - that is v. much my philosophy too
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Anybody use one of those glass jeweler's spirit lamps (~£8 on ebay) that have angled sides so that you can lean them over (and/or perhaps so they are stable & safe if they fall over)? Is that a useful feature? Or the very cheap, simple £3 Chinese ones from ebay (or the £8 Japanese variant).
Anybody use one those shiny metal (stainless steel?) dental spirit lamps (~£6-£8 on ebay/Amazon)? One model just has one hole/cap with wick. Another has a second cap (vent/filler?).
Is wick adjusting wheel worthwile or just an unnecessary gimmick?
Anybody tried one of the vintage medical/dental tool sterilizing burners? They often take the fold of a rectangular box with a foldout lid. Often they have a flip-up tool holder - presumably to support the tool handle away from the flame while the tip is steralized - which seems like a handy feature. Some are sold as expensive antiques but I have seen a couple of cheap ones.
How do you support the tool when heating it - do you just hold it? When I used my woodburner, I just propped the handle up on a log which sat on the stove top & let the head sit on the stove top.
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I am impressed by the range of ideas so far. Hadn't thought of candles, I have several large ones in my workshop already - long relegated from the house & looking for a use. In winter I have used the top of my woodburning stove but not really practical this time of year.
Veedub3/Karina, that sounds ideal but finding wick/grommet kits in the UK will likely be be tricky/expensive.
TinkerTailor, what sort of grommet did you use - rubber/ceramic/...? I noticed a small glass jar with a metal screw cap in a cupboard this morning that might do. Alternatively I have an old 50cc aftershave bottle made of thick glass that might do. Although I am a little hesitant to make my own in case it spills burning fuel & starts a fire. Would probably use outside as a safety precaution.
I had to look up chafing fuel on wiki - looks great if you have access to them. In the UK they can be cheap in bulk but can be expensive individually. I'll keep my eye out for them.
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I gather that an alcohol fueled "spirit lamp" is the preferred method for heating leather creases. I wondered if the more experienced hands agree? If so any recommendation as to preferred model/design features or any other heating tips?
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...of course, I could be wrong: Blanchard might have used HSS (High Speed Steel) rather than regular carbon steel. In which case, you'll likely get a very hard wearing cutting edge but one that might require high speed grinding on a bench grinder (which would heat & ruin normal carbon steel tools). Perhaps that would work for professionals(?) - it doesn't appeal to me though: love carbon steel :D.
I have some tools made in Sweden which use "bearing steel". They have extremely durable, extremely sharp edges but which are easily maintained by light honing/polishing. I'm not a metallurgist but I think they are some type of carbon steel, perhaps somewhere between regular carbon steel & HSS? And no doubt some of the "magic" is added by the blacksmith (Hans Karlsson &, now, sons) who makes & tempers them.
It might even be some kind of stainless steel (e.g. 440) but waterstones should be able to handle that fine.
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Because of the type of hand tool this is, I would guess that it is made of carbon steel (with a Rockwell hardness of around ~R58-R62). Also, the cutting edge is really very small. And it is rather expensive. So I would have expected this tool to be exceptionally easy to sharpen & hone and that it would readily hold a good edge. So I am wondering if maybe one of 4 things is happening:
- Your sharpening technique is wrong
- You actually have it sharp already but just don't realize it
- Poor tool (e.g. poor or defective steel).
#3 seems unlikely but possible. Was it sharp when it arrived?
#2 How do you test/evaluate sharpness?
#1 Sharpening effectively takes some practice. It has become something of a hobby/minor obsession for me. Here are some thoughts, in addition to what has already been suggested above:
a. When sharpening, you need to establish your sharp cutting edge with the coarsest stone before moving on. Essentially your first stone is really all you need, the rest is just finishing.
b. I would have thought 1000 grit would have been about right for maintaining this knife, assuming it arrived sharp. If it did not arrive sharp, then you might need to start with a coarser stone* (e.g. 480 grit waterstone or small 240 grit wet grinder) - or spend *a lot* of time with your 1000 grit stone!
BTW what sort of cutting edge are you aiming for? As a woodcarver, I normally/habitually sharpen to a flat "Scandi" (Scandinavian) grind. I would suggest a flat-bevel Scani-grind for this knife - which is like a mini-version of my own English paring knife (~£5/$7.50). Other options include: convex/concave/secondary-bevel/micro-bevel, each has advantages & disadvantages.
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Seems awfully expensive but sure is pretty
It looks like a good design and I would be surprised if it didn't come sharp & work extremely well. Bit like a Ferrari solution - but if you use it everyday perhaps a worthwhile investment. The most expensive tools aren't always necessary & don't always turn out to be the best/most effective option* (but sometimes they are :D - and if you enjoy them...). Just don't loose the darn thing! -
Hi Alex, Yes, very happy with my Barnsley round/head knife (& my Barnsley English paring knife) but I am a hobbyist so they don't get a huge amount of use, as a pro's would. They are tools made for professional leather workers.
Re. 4", No, just one size I think but you could try asking LePrevo - I expect they bought a few boxes of tools when Barnsley went out of business some years. Happily, I read that some of the Barnsley decedents are starting the company up again, selling off some old stock and (I think) starting to make some new tools too - good luck to them
. I would have preferred a 4" knife but this was the best deal and, the way I look at it, the 5" will eventually become a 4" (and then smaller) with use and sharpening - although that may well after my time! - and there is plenty of spare metal if I mess up (cutting or sharpening) a few times! :D Not a big deal really. Nor have I been tempted to cut down the handle so far (as suggested in Al Stohlman's tool booklet). BUT I strongly advise reviewing Al Stohlman's safety tips (in his tool booklet) before using a head/round knife for the first time - they are excellent and might save a finger or two -
Flexcut compound should be good. Suggestion: For a cheap, effective "sharpener", you can use some 600 grit wet-and-dry paper glued to smooth, flat piece of wood/glass/formica. Ben Orford explains a method in this youtube video that has worked very well for me with a variety of edge tools:
I have quite a collection of sharpening stones, gizmos & wheels. The above works as well as anything & better than most - cheap & cheerful. Beyond that - later - a cheap, new, combination oil stone from a name brand like Draper or Faithful (don't get the very cheapest no-name ones - they are usually too coarse and/or too soft - I have several of these, only really suitable for big garden tools); in the UK they cost about £4-£8 plus a Faithfull wooden box for the stone about another £5-£6 is a good investment. Used them with a light oil.
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...made by Blanchard, I think English made. It has stitch marking wheels for 9, 10, 12, and 14 stitches per inch. Someone has enlarged the holes of some Osborne embosing wheels so they fit it. They are all stored in the brass ball at the top. I took some picks for a closer look. (:
French made I think. A lovely tool, both to look at & in concept. Too expensive for my modest needs/budget though. Lucky you, finding a good used one
What Is The Point Of A Head/round Knife?
in How Do I Do That?
Posted · Edited by Tannin · Report reply
BTW I also have a fancy-looking clicker's knife (the"industrial knife" from Tandy I believe), with walnut & brass handle - but I do not recommend it: although the blades are sharp & well shaped, they are much, much shorter than the very long (and therefore longer lasting) ones of a traditional English clicker's knife, which costs half the price. Also the fancy handle is not good: the wood was split when it arrived, the brass-lock mechanism is crudely held together inside and its design prevents the use of the longer traditional blades. The lock mechanism doesn't work well: it sticks when you need it to move and moves when you need it to stick. It seems weak too. The brass has also become incredibly tarnished despite being kept alongside many other tools (mostly rust-prone carbon steel) which are fine. It was a bad purchase all round, very disappointing (although it cuts well enough).
If you like this style of knife (they are very good for cutting around patterns, especially smaller patterns), I would suggest getting one of the cheaper, plainer looking, traditional black handled ones (such as the one sold by Dixons & others) that take the longer blades; they have stood the test of time. I did see a similar one with a blue plastic handle, that might be even better (less chance of the handle splitting) but I could not find a supplier. Or get a vintage fixed blade clicker's knife if you can find one (I couldn't, they might have been used only/mainly in France).
Or simply use broad concave curved blades in your Stanley knife (I got some good, thick, single ended, made-in-Sheffield blades like this on ebay). And strop them! :^D