Tannin
-
Content Count
199 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Posts posted by Tannin
-
-
... All too often with some of the modern examples of hand-stitched work I see that there is no stitching groove where the stitching line is. This groove is the channel that helps give your stitches a uniform, straight, clean look and also helps to protect the thread from early wear as it protects it from rubbing on everything and from moving around (which we all know weakens the fibers of the material). ..
I'm pretty new to this but from I can gather, cutting a stitching groove is the prevalent(/traditional?) style in the USA but in England saddlers do not traditionally/normally cut a groove unless there is a particular need to protect the stitching concerned. I believe the reason is that the outer layer of the leather is the toughest part, so they want to leave that intact. Nigel Armitage marks his stitch line with a pair of dividers (e.g. set to 6mm from the edge) & then marks even stitch hole positions along the line with a pricking iron. Then uses the awl to open up the slots cut by the pricking iron, one stitch at a time.
That's not to say one method is better than the other - just different. With the thick leathers that I am currently using for relatively light duty, cutting a groove would not be a problem and might well improve my stitching. It would reduce the thickness of leather that the awl has to go through too.
-
... It sounds like 3.5mm is Dixon's standard size (but why so big?) - perhaps, the thinner 1.2mm requires custom grinding and is only done upon special request? However, when I ordered my pricking iron from Joseph Dixon Ltd., I was very careful to specify "slim" at several points (including in email & on the phone) but the one they sent produces holes which seem way too long (yes, I would estimate 3.5mm
...
- but I will check) and they said it had to be made to order. If you mark your stitching line ~6mm from the edge (per several of Nigel's excellent videos), the pricking iron cuts scarily close to the edge. Thinking of contacting them, rather than continuing to grumble.Well, I contacted Joseph Dixons and...
... I would give Dixons a call & see if they will make things right for you, as I said earlier in this post it's been a good few years since I dealt with them & things may have changed. I never saw how the tools were modified, they used to just take a stock item off into the workshop, a few minutes later they would return with a hot, modified tool which was then wrapped carefully in oiled brown paper, the guys there in those days were lovely.I really hope they make things right for you.
...they said just send it back. They re-ground it slim and returned it straight back to me. Quick & painless.
The slots cut now are perhaps 2-3mm* (but it's really hard to measure accurately, esp. with my eyesight now, but almost twice the length produced by the Estone irons) but they now look right for the sort of work I do now. Happy *Ah - I just noticed that I specified "1.8mm(-2mm)" for the re-grind, rather than the 1.2mm suggested by Nigel Armitage above, so my mistake this time. Apparently Dixons grind to order! Actually I am happy with it at 2mm, I was inclined not to cut it too fine anyway (so that it can be re-ground or sharpened in the future), which is why I added the "(-2mm)". I already expected to use the smaller Estone #8 irons (which probably are close to 1.2mm) for smaller, more delicate work & the Dixons #7 for larger pieces & thicker threads.
Lesson: Learn from my mistakes, order carefully, "Slim line, 1.2mm"
-
I mark & start the holes using a Pricking Iron. Then I use a saddler's awl to open up the holes, one stitch at a time, when sewing (saddle stitch). That's how Nigel Armitage does it on his excellent youtube videos. Why one hole at a time? Well, the holes start to close up quite quickly, especially if you open up another hole nearby.
-
Lovely looking tool. Perhaps they could persuade somebody (Joseph Dixons, Barnsley or C.S. Osbourne perhaps) to manufacture them? I could have done with just that tool last night, as my round knife was forced to too steep of an angle (over my other hand, which was holding the leather down) when finishing skiving the welt for a small sheath (for my English paring knife). So I finished up with the smallest, red handled Mora sloyd knife (2/0) - which has proven handy for skiving small areas, I usually use the curved tip.
http://www.moonrakerknives.co.uk/morawoodcarving.html (Unusually small - like a medium sized pen-knife).
-
I invested in a small, cheap old American WEN Wet Wheel off ebay some years ago - it has proven invaluable. Cost just over half the price of a mediocre Japanese wetstone. I don't think they make them any more - which is a shame - but happily there are quite a lot of used ones around. I use it mainly to (re-)establish a sharp edge on very blunt tools & knives - free-hand. Then I move onto stones - I have several options but currently favour oil stones (simple, inexpensive & effective).
Something like this:
-
... I mean, if I do not put the knot in, the angle of stitches on the front does get quite steep, while the stitches on the back straighten-up. But as soon as I throw the thread over the right-hand needle, the angle gets shallower (although visible on both sides) and the thread gets pushed to the upper side of the holes.
Tried to follow Nigel's videos word by word, but never managed to get steep angles of stitches on both sides, no matter what thickness of the thread I used (This is something I will ask in the forum thread about his videos)
...
I wondered if the direction of the slots might be key (e.g. top of the slot towards you or away from you) & which direction you sew (towards you/away)? Macca's sample stitching is what I am aiming for. Sometimes times I get closer than others, which made me wonder if it might be a 50:50 thing, depending on which way direction I stitch relative to the direction of slant.
Camano ridge is right about the slots "healing up": I got my needle wallet out tonight and the long slots on the centre seam have "healed over" and are no longer visible. Leather has some interesting properties.
... here is a link to Niegels video
Nigel has 2 saddle stitch videos, although the one above is billed as "in detail", I still sometimes find it useful to refer to the shorter original one:
-
Thanks for the responses
I just made a test stamp with my Dixon pricking iron and the slots cut measure closer to 3mm than 3.5mm/1.2mm. I used a thick piece of quite hard leather, perhaps that helped prevent the iron penetrating fully. It actually looked better than I recall - perhaps it works better in thicker/harder leathers than softer/thinner leather?I've been using mainly (USA made?*) C. S. Osbourne awl blades (spear/leaf-shaped saddlers awl blades), which I sharpen & strop. I haven't seen them mentioned very much on this forum so far, which surprised me given the number of US & Canadian members. Are there better options? Vergez Blanchard for $6 (I see US & Canadian dollars are about the same value these days) sounds very interesting - I paid significantly more than that for the Osbourne blades here (oddly, an Osbourne blade here costs the same as a complete Osbourne awl with handle!); I would expect French-made blades (if that's what they are) to be cheaper here than in N. America. BTW I recently received 2 new, longer, diamond-section, saddler's blades from LePrevo @ half the price of the Osbourne blades, haven't tried them out yet but they look pretty good.
*I was surprised to find that my saddler's needles from old English company John James are made in China, while I noticed (in a picture in a leather book) a packet of needles from USA company C. S. Osbourne labelled "made in England"!
-
BTW Does the width of the awl play any part in this? (e.g. Even if the pricking iron cuts overly long slots - woud using a narrow awl help keep the holes small?). I thought awl blades only varied in length but another thread on this forum had some discussion on awl blade widths.
-
Interesting thread. It sounds like 3.5mm is Dixon's standard size (but why so big?) - perhaps, the thinner 1.2mm requires custom grinding and is only done upon special request? However, when I ordered my pricking iron from Joseph Dixon Ltd., I was very careful to specify "slim" at several points (including in email & on the phone) but the one they sent produces holes which seem way too long (yes, I would estimate 3.5mm
- but I will check) and they said it had to be made to order. If you mark your stitching line ~6mm from the edge (per several of Nigel's excellent videos), the pricking iron cuts scarely close to the edge. Thinking of contacting them, rather than continuing to grumble.Meantime, I purchased a cheap but good set of 3 Estone pricking irons from Amazon and they work very well, just as I would hope & expect
- they are 8 spi & would likely suit small work like mart99's original post.Macca, good tip about using thicker thread - although I am already using 0.8mm Tiger thread & thicker threads - & nice examples of applying oltoot's suggestions. Thanks for sharing.
It may be a bit of a daunting task, but many users will thin a Dixons pricking iron. They are notorious for having very thick teeth.
I think Matt hit the nail on the head there, the newer Dixons pricking irons do seem to have larger teeth, the last time I bought a new one (many moons ago) I asked if they could make the teeth smaller, I used to be able to call into the factory & often took a piece of leather with marks punched to give them an idea of what I wanted, they were always happy to adjust the tool & it only took a few minutes, I've not bought from them in a long time so don't know what they are like now, but they were always very helpful & friendly when I was buying my tools. These days I tend to look out for old pricking irons, they do have much finer teeth.
Interesting. Did you see how they did it - using a bench-grinder perhaps? Not really what you'd expect after paying so much for a tool and postage (their shipping charge is by far the highest I have come across - & why both to rush it when they take more than a week to process the order - the pricking iron was made to order - & I was in no hurry).
-
...I would think that head knives are descended from pikes, war axes. and other such halfmoon shaped implements and probably date back to Roman Times
I came across this post which I thought you might find of interest: http://www.knifenetwork.com/forum/showthread.php?t=33543
-
I have several George Barnsley tools, including two NOS leather knives and I really like them, both arrived sharp. The blade on my most recent purchase, my round knife, rings like a bell, which sends shivers down my back! I enjoy using them.
BTW I was once fortunate to be invited to an event at the Cutlers Hall in Sheffield - I hadn't previously realized just what a rich culture of steel, tool and cutlery making Sheffield had. I thought it was basically British Steel Ltd. but there are/were actually dozens (perhaps hundreds?) of small and medium sized companies doing all kinds of things related to steel there for a hundred years.
-
...If I would just bite the bullet on a set of #6 Blanchard irons ($219 free shipping), instead of spending dollar after dollar trying to find something "cheaper", I could finally get on with life and quit worrying about it. I never learn, it seems, when it comes to stuff like this: If you want quality tools, sometimes the only way to do it is to spend the big money once and be done.
... I have a similar tendency and you are not the first person to come to that conclusion. My wife says something along the lines "buy what you need but buy it only once" - i.e. buy decent quality so that it is long lasting enough and you are happy enough not to want to buy it/one/them again. Somebody else once wrote something along the lines that they were "too poor to buy a tool more than once" - which is a pretty clever way to justify buying quality tools! :DThat all said, I first invested in a single 1.5" Joseph Dixon pricking iron - which I found painfully expensive but I gather they are but a fraction of the price of those pretty, shiny Blanchard ones (although $219 for a set sounds far cheaper than the prices I have seen). I find the holes it cuts rather longer than I expected or require. I have since bought a set of 3 smaller, much cheaper ones through Amazon (which I assume are Chinese) and I have so far been very impressed with them - I am not a full-time/professional leatherworker though - so your mileage may vary. Also, as far as I can tell, they only come in 8 spi (and that camera case looks like it using a significantly fewer stitches-per-inch). See my earlier post for details of the cheaper pricking irons: http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=55751&p=370347
Re. Barnsley, I have several Barnsley tools and I like them - they are not fancy but they seem very solid & functional, they are intended for professional use (I think Barnsley made tools more for shoemakers/cobblers/cordwainers/tyre fitters & Dixons more for saddlers). If they are still making pricking irons, I expect they are good and reasonably priced. Although I get the impression that pricking irons are harder to make well than most tools.
BTW The pricking iron in the video looks quite similar in size to my Dixon iron (i.e. larger than the oriental ones) - the jaggedness near the top of each tine is different though.
-
In the end, I ordered a 5" "saddler's round knife" by George Barnsley, Sheffield, England (possibly NOS i.e. New Old Stock). I have a couple of Barnsley tools already & like them.
Received the Barnsley round knife from LePrevo last weekend. The blade rang like a bell when I removed it from its cardboard blade guard, which sent shivers down my back! It arrived sharp - cut through 4mm saddle leather like the proverbial "hot knife through butter" - so I have just stropped it for now. Early days but delighted with it so far.
-
First style. Totally round and you can not feel the angle of the blade in your hand.
Perhaps that's why Al Stohlman's tool book usually/always shows the round knife being held with two fingers held flat against the back of the blade?
He also recommends shortening long handles so the end fits in the palm of your hand (and provides an illustration of how to do it); it sounds like it an interesting idea but I plan to stick with the standard (round) handle unless/until I've found a problem with it.
-
The temperature dropped freakishly low here (southern England) one night a year or 2 ago (could it have been -19 C?) - caused a nasty, destructive leak. But yes, damp & black spot - "blight" or "mildew" we call it, probably erroneously - is potentially a bigger problem. I recenty cleared out the vent blocks (2 were obstructed) and I try to open the doors up as often and for as long as practical.
That 's nothing to the mid-West USA though. I recall it being -54 with windchill one day while in Chicago. Never experienced cold that hurt until I visited the mid-West.
-
I am interested too. I am in a similar situation but in the UK, so less extreme temperature range. I am also concerned that mice might take a fancy to it. [bTW For finished leather (specifically horse tack), have read that the Ko-chi-line is good for preserving leather in storage.]
-
Sadly, I find the slots cut by my (painfully expensive) 1.5" Dixon 7 spi pricking iron overly long (and, on advice, I took care to specify "slim" when I ordered) - I would think too long to be ideal for your small wallets/pouches. I have some far cheaper Chinese-made 8 spi pricking irons* which would likely work better for your pouches. I would go with 8 spi (but 7/8/9/10 are probably all in the ball-park) -- it will require a few more stitches but will likely look a little more professional/polished/refined (if that's what you are after).
*Their description on Amazon does not call them "pricking irons" or mention "8 spi" & there are several similar looking "chisels" products which are not pricking irons, so to avoid any confusion, here is an image and a link to the exact product I am referring to:
You can buy them individually (or perhaps just the biggest, if you know how to tilt it for short runs/curves) but the set is excellent value and I find it useful to have all 3. I am very pleased with them. Smaller than the Dixon but well made, with sharp blades & polished handles.
Yes, 0.8mm thread works well with the above.
Didn't realise that awl blades came in different widths but I have several different length awl blades - C. S. Osbourne leaf/spear/diamond-shaped (whatever they are called) blades, the 3 shortest lengths I think. But I have just bought a couple of longer awl blades from LePrevo which are diamond-profile, as I am currently using 2 & 3 layers of 4-5mm leather and the short awls are barely long enough, especially once they have worked themselves backwards into the handle a few extra mm (I have had to epoxy all 3 blades into their respective handles now
). -
Vegan leather?! Plastic seems a bit "un-vegan", and possibly less green than leather (it seems disrespectful to me not to use all of an animal, once dead). Not exactly leather but I've seen some interesting boxes, sheaths and edge-guards made from birch bark, which is used somewhat like leather. Jarrod Stonedahl & his wife in Wisconsin/Minnesota do some fantastic work, combining (I think) Native American & Scandinavian influences.
-
Lovely videos. I was re-assured to see you using several tools that I use myself but, from the end result, I can see that you are way ahead of me. Inspiring to see what can be done. Thank you for sharing
BTW I was surprised to see you punching into the leather on what looks like a polished granite slab. I can understand using a hard surface when skiving (for the blade to slide against) but surprised to see it used when punching holes. I normally punch on the end of a log, a piece of plywood or on one of those green self-healing cutting boards (resting on plywood) - in order to preserver the cutting edges.
-
I am stll fairly new to all this and I have only used (generic ebay) linen thread a little. I've also used SpeedyStitcher's fine & coarse threads which look like natural linen but are actually waxed polyester and most recently I've been using Tiger thread, which is waxed, braided, polyester. They all worked fine, well enough for me anyway. I am happy to use any & all.
Folk sometimes complain about synthetic threads (usually nylon) stretching or being difficult to tension -- however I believe polyester does not stretch like nylon, at least that is my experience using braided ropes of nylon and polyester. The Tiger thread does stretch a bit (not unpleasantly) but I suspect that is due to its braided construction. I like braided cords and they are usually finer, stronger & more robust than their (cheaper) twisted equivalents. I find it slightly easier to run the needle through the ends of the cord, after threading my needle, and it holding securely than in non-braided threads.
I find it a little easier to thread needles and to sew with Tiger thread but that is probably because it is thinner diameter (0.8mm) than my other threads, which I suspect are closer to 1mm. Also, I only recently learnt to use the fine, waxed ends of linen thread - I used to cut those flat, oops!
-
Hi Tannin, StrigaMort showed you a proper clicking knife above....
Hi Tor - oh yes, I see it now, in his original link (I wondered where I'd open that link from) - that is exactly the same clicking knife that I have too. It works very well but I would actually suggest getting a different one, one of the more traditional ones that can take the longer blades (old hacksaw blades if you like, as you suggest - although they might be thinner), they are also about half the price here. Less importantly, I would also suggest getting one with a plastic handle, if you can find one - I have only seen a picture of one such. Good idea about flattening the handle - I've already done that to my awls hadn't thought about doing it to the clicking knife.
Yes those Blanchard Indispensable knives look very good - actually most of their tools look wonderful but many (e.g. their highly polished pricking irons & elaborate pricking wheels) are very expensive here (add 20% VAT, etc.) although I guess relatively less so for a Norwegian (watched a documentary on Norway recently - strong currency, sovereign wealth fund - well done!). The English-made tools are not cheap either but they are typically less than half the price of the Blanchard tools - albeit a little less refined/polished (I figure my tools improve with use). Actually I have a small-bladed wood carving knife with a similarly shaped blade to the Blanchard knife, made by Ben Orford(whose wife is an accomplished leather crafter) which I could use - but I think I will stick with the clicking knife for now.
For a cutting surface I use one of those green "self-healing" cutting mat, miraculous, I have an A4 size one but just ordered a larger A2 one:
The Scandinavians make some wonderful knives & axes - we mostly see Swedish made things by Gransfors Bruks, Hans Karlsson, Whetterlings, Mora/Frost, Halftors, etc. but I'm aware of similar tools - old & new - coming from Finland (Martinni?) and Norway. Are there any good traditional or modern Scandinavian leather working tools (e.g. for reindeer hides)?
-
Nail polish remover used to be carbon tetrachloride - which was also used for dry cleaning - it is carcinogenic (can cause cancer). Things may have changed but I'd avoid sniffing that stuff.
I expect isopropyl alcohol, rubbing alcohol or - in the UK - methylated spirits ("meths") would work, they are all organic solvents. Yes, alcohol tends to harden cells, so I'm not surprised that it might harden leather - perhaps that is also why it is so bad for the liver? A Botanist told me they use it to harden plant cells when preparing them to go on microscope slides.
BTW If you search the forum for "oxalic acid", there is a discussion on using this acid before dying leather. Coincidentally I just received some in the post today but I will use it to remove tannin stains from an oak bowl rather than on leather (it is often sold as "wood bleacher" & sometimes as "alloy wheel cleaner"). It is corrosive & poisonous, so gloves & safety glasses would be prudent. White vinegar might be a safer (but weaker) alternative - I use a white vinegar spray as a general cleaner - "old school".
Yes, washing hands frequently with soapy water is a good idea - learnt that the hard way handling newly finished bowls
. -
Thanks for showing that tannin. I have a very similar knife for wood carving, but I figured the recurve blade would be useless. I've got a couple of head knives coming by I see no reason to limit myself.
I hadn't thought of using them for woodcarving - any good for incising/cutting curves? The hook seems to work very well cutting leather - unsurprising, as the clicking knife is a traditional leather working tool for cutting patterns out of leather. You can still get them with fixed blades too, like this:
http://www.rushdenheritage.co.uk/shoetrade/shoemakingclicking.htmlCutting curves is often challenging though, I find lifting the handle helps (perhaps by presenting a thinner, more curved & pointed tip?). However, I too have just ordered a round knife but more out of curiosity than necessity. I would think the round knife might be more suitable for bigger projects and longer cuts.
BTW I started off using some thick Sheffield-made single-ended curved blades (bought v. cheaply on eBay) for my vintage 199 Stanley knife, they work very well and can be sharpened. They have a similar shape & thickness to the Tandy industrial knife shown above. However, currently, the clicking knife does seem to cut a little better for some reason - perhaps a little narrower/sharper/stiffer/shallower bevel angle? I think the Stanley knife blades might improve with use/wear though (TBC).
-
How about a clicking/clicker's knife with a concave curved blade (that's what I use currently or a Stanley 199 knife with similar blade)? Either long blade or short blade variety:
http://www.kingsmerecrafts.com/[A cheap, plastic handled, long blade clicking knife might be the best option (~£12 inc. blade & shipping if you shop around): I have a short blade walnut handled version but the long blade one seems like better value, assuming that you can just keep sharpening it. Note: The short blade variety will not take a long blades. Wooden handles are prone to splitting
- so plastic might offer some advantage in that regard. ]Here is one in use cutting curves: http://ritsandrits.blogspot.co.uk/p/will-show-how-we-create-bear-leather.html
hand stitching guide
in Sewing Leather
Posted · Edited by Tannin · Report reply
Hi Walter, hope you are feeling better after your Salmonella poisoning
. That is a very fine clamp/Nähross indeed - I would expect nothing less from Switzerland (a beautiful, clean and "ordered" country). You will laugh when you see mine, which I made from an ash log:
Silverbullet, would be interested to see your vice & mauls.
I had to Google "leather rougher" - closest thing I have come across in the UK would be the somewhat cheaper "suede brush", a small, stiff wire-brush - traditionally used to clean suede "desert boots" , brogues & the like: