Traveller

They were both great looking saddles -- congrats, you guys! Joanne

Hi David, Thanks for weighing in! I'm definitely going to an all-wool pad, though I don't think the gel was the entire cause of the problem. The gel pockets are only at the front of the saddle and the rubbing was at the back. Plus, fortunately for me, I live in the "warm" part of Canada and was riding in an indoor arena, so it wasn't all that cold (kind of like riding in fall weather, for the most part). I think in this case, it was a simple case of poor saddle fit. However I do think that the gel doesn't do the horse any favours and, thanks to you folks here, have been convinced of the superiority of full wool for my next saddle. Now to find the next saddle.... Joanne

I actually sold the saddle tonight! I'm sure it'll be a good one for the guy who bought it, as it was very good for me for about six months... until it wasn't. See you (and others!) at the Kamloops Cowboy Festival this weekend.

That would be great, Ron! I have a pretty tight window, though, if we're to get it done before the Kamloops Cowboy Festival. I'll PM you my contact info. Thanks! Joanne

I want it... very nice, Steve!

Thanks for the explanation, Dennis. Much appreciated! Joanne

I'd love to try out Dennis Lane's system but I've only got the one horse and don't plan to make saddles myself, so the best I can hope for is to follow the instructions you guys gave me and cross my fingers that the measurements I get lead me to a saddle that works. I'm getting tired of changing saddles up all the time. Thanks, everybody. As always, your advice is very much appreciated! Joanne

I'm heading up to the Kamloops Cowboy Festival in mid-March in the hopes that I'll find (or find someone with) a good quality, used custom saddle that will fit my horse and my budget. But since I can't haul the horse up there with me, I'll have to take photos and measurements instead (plus Darc Kabatoff, who has offered to come by and check out my horse for me before then -- thanks in advance, Darc!). Which photo angles should I bring with me, and how and where should the measurements be made? I understand you can buy a bendy ruler from stores like Staples to get a good whither tracing, which I presume would be easier than operating an old wire coat hanger. But precisely where should that measurement be made? I've attached a side photo of my horse for starters. Thanks, all! Joanne

Thanks for all the info, everyone! I found a similar saddle for sale on the local craigslist at http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/grd/1056086335.html. There's no price attached. Anyone have any idea what a saddle like this might be worth? I'm not considering buying either of them but since I originally went to see the first saddle as a potential riding saddle (I didn't buy it), I'm kind of curious as to what it might go for. Thanks again!

I have a Billy Cook saddle (for at least a little while longer!) and as far as I can tell, the 4-digit number stamped on the latigo holder is the style and the one under the skirt is that saddle's own particular number. There will be several of the same style but only one of the saddle's number. This is what I think it's about since I've found other identical BC saddles with the same number stamped on the latigo holder. I hope that helps (and that it's right!).

I'll be heading home mid-morning on Sunday but will be there Saturday. Would meeting up on Saturday some time work? I'm planning to go to the Chuck Stormes saddle session; I assume most of you will attend that as well?

Thanks, Bruce. I agree it looks like it was made long, long before the early 60s when Jim bought it. I think the way the seat is scalloped up by the horn (I'm sure there are proper words to describe what I'm talking about...) is really interesting. Does that tell you anything about where it might have been made? I did a google search for "warranted" but of course came up with far, far too many sites. So if your memory ever kicks in, let me know!

Hi everybody, I went to check out this old time saddle for sale near me and while it looks to be too narrow for my horse, it's a very nice old saddle I thought you might all like to see, plus it would be great if some of you could help fill in its history. The man who owns it (and is selling it) bought it used back in the early 60s. He had the tree checked when he bought it and had some repairs done (the cantle work wasn't the finest repair job in the world!) and has taken very good care of it over the years. The leather, though worn and obviously old, isn't dried out and the felt lining is in good condition. The maker's stamp is quite worn but you can see the shape of its circle plus the word "warranted" or "warrantied." Does anyone have any idea how old it is, who might have made it, and how much it might be worth today? Thanks! Joanne side view stamp cantle (it looks like the skirts might be uneven; I hadn't noticed that before) front of saddle cantle

Ron, have the saddle shipped to Hagen's of Blaine (they're in the book or on the 'net, I'm sure). Give Hagen's a call ahead of time to get your contact info in their data base and then every time you receive an item, they charge you $2 to hold it and $1 to call you to tell you it's there. Then you drive across the line, pick it up, and declare it yourself when you come through customs. It doesn't save you any duties or taxes but you don't have to pay for international shipping, and that's no small thing. I'm assuming you're still in Langley? If you moved to the interior, then a trip to Blaine isn't quite so simple! Joanne

That'd be great, Darc, if you can make it. I'd love to haul the horse over to you but the Honda Civic just isn't up to the task! My friend Lois and I will be staying with an old high school friend of mine who lives in Kamloops so I'll have to seek you all out at the festival. Looking forward to it!

I thought I'd head up to the Kamloops Cowboy Festival in mid-March and was wondering whether anyone from here might be going, too. Chuck Stormes will be giving a talk so I'm hoping a lot of saddle makers will be there, and maybe one will have a line on a used custom saddle that could fit my horse (a new custom saddle being time and money away, at least for the moment!). My good friend Lois Hannah will be coming with me. She's a sculptor who is working on a full-size bronze of bronc rider Kenny McLean riding the bronc, War Paint. The people who commissioned the piece will be selling smaller bronze versions of the sculpture at the Festival. Joanne

wow, that's serious! Was that because he hired illegal immigrants? (on a side note, I just got bucked off BIG TIME out of my Billy Cook saddle and while the horse is very much to blame for doing a hand stand with me in the saddle -- there were quite a number of little bucks and not so little bucks, which I was very proud of sitting -- and nicely, if I do say so myself -- until the final spurt and HUGE buck catapulted me onto the hard, hard, hard sand arena floor... that final buck was worthy of a rodeo bronc, and I have witnesses to prove it... for what that's worth -- I'm thinking a fair amount of his motivation for doing so had at least something to do with my BC saddle not fitting so well.... I know others have them and love them but right now, I'm not so much one of 'em.... Ok, a little too much Robaxi-watsit and a wee bit of Scotch might have made that story a little less coherent than I would have liked, but suffice to say that I'm on a serious hunt for a new saddle... so far, the horse is safe, though he shouldn't be getting TOO comfortable....) Jo

Thanks Blake and Bruce, I'll do that. Darc Kabatoff from this forum e-mailed me with info on how to best block the skirts so I'll give that a shot first. I don't think the saddle is a terrible fit or, as you say Bruce, it would have been a bigger problem than just some rubbed hairs (my horse has already proven that he's willing to buck under a poor-fitting saddle!). I'll still outline the tree shape to satisfy my curiosity (thanks for that, Denise!) and will post those pictures. This has been a very helpful thread!

Bruce, do you think the saddle would be worth taking to someone for a tune-up? Or are the raw materials possibly not good enough to begin with? I don't want to put a whole lot of money into it but I need a saddle to ride in and since I'm not in a position to order a custom saddle right away and the horse isn't objecting to this one (not yet, anyway!), it would be great to get the one I've got going properly. Joanne

Denise, when I'm at the barn on Friday, I'll feel the edges of the bars and then mark them with green tape. Hopefully that will help. And Bruce, I took this picture of the lacing behind the skirts. I don't know if it gives much in the way of information or answers any of your questions, but here 'tis: Thanks again, all!

Denise, I won't be able to make it out to the barn until Friday but will get more pictures then. I don't know off-hand which shape the bars are, but I'm pretty sure it's not a flex tree. It's also a fairly heavy saddle -- about 40 lbs -- so the tree may be wood and rawhide. I'm seem to remember checking for rawhide but it's been a while, so I'll do that again, too. Thanks for your help!

Denise, here are the photos you suggested I take. I hope this is what you had in mind (sorry, the focus isn't great on some of them!): this is where the back of the bars are this is where the rub starts this is where the nearly bald spot is the underside of the saddle - there don't appear to be any rub marks The saddle isn't that old. A friend of mine bought it new last October and I bought it from her this summer, so that might account for why rub marks haven't shown up yet. I hope this information is helpful. Thanks again, everyone!

Bruce, I'd have thought a more inverted horse would run into the back of the saddle, too. Maybe he's using his hind end more so it's coming more into contact with the back of the saddle? Or maybe since he's using his hind end more, he's got more movement happening in his back (he's definitely swinging more), so there's more opportunity for friction? As for the underpad, I rode the first two-thirds of my ride today with the underpad and then the last third without (it was going to be the last half but the ride got cut a little short in the end) to see whether he went differently and there was no difference, so I'll remove the underpad. If it's not helping it might very well be hurting. Denise, it's quite possible that removing the rear cinch had something to do with this and it just took a while for the hairs to get short enough for me to notice the problem. I always snugged up the rear cinch but of course not in the way you would the front cinch and never imagined it would help hold the back of the saddle down (it would be too tight then, right?). As you say, though, the back cinch may "balance" the saddle. It's good to know that the rubbing is happening behind the bars. Maybe that's why he's not showing soreness, even though it can't be entirely comfortable. Thanks for your time!

Here are some shots of Traveller's back where the hair is worn down. I took them immediately after the saddle came off today. It's getting quite bad, actually. I've only ridden twice since I cut the laces out and had a very good ride today, though it's got to be irritating for him, to say the least. Thanks again for all your suggestions. Joanne

I'm glad I asked for advice in the winter! It sounds like summertime advice wouldn't have been anywhere near as good. I'll get shots today after my ride. Thanks!