Traveller

The saddle I ride in now (a Billy Cook ranch saddle) has a rear cinch on it, but last night when I was ranch sorting, I knocked my ankle against the rear cinch buckle and, well, it hurt! So I got thinking... when I finally order my custom saddle (right after I order a better economic outlook and Canadian dollar!), do I really need one? I won't ever rope a cow, though I do expect to do some fairly serious back country riding, and I've just started ranch sorting. Eventually I'll do some penning, too. I like the vaquero-style saddles, as opposed to the pleasure types, which could mean that even if I don't actually need a back cinch, it might look strange without one. And though I hope to be buried with my custom saddle, the truth is that I might want to sell it at some point, so it should have the things on it that most people want or expect, at least within reason. Whaddaya'll think? Thanks! Joanne

Hi Curbstrap2, I did a lot of research into Aussie saddles a few years ago and it turns out that there are only a few good, production-line brands, along with any number of small, independent makers (some of which are on this forum), and all of them proudly display their names. The good production lines I discovered include Syd Hill and Toowoomba (which, if I understand correctly, are now the same company), Trevor James and Porter Saddles. (If anyone knows of any other good Australian saddle production lines, I'd love to add to my very short list!) Most of the Aussie saddles that make it to North America are the Asian-made ones, and they give Aussie saddles a bad name. They don't fit well, they don't last long, and they're uncomfortable to sit in. My guess would be that, without a prominent saddle maker's mark, your saddle almost certainly came from Asia. And with the big movement you're getting out of the tree, even if it isn't broken, I personally wouldn't put it on a horse. It sounds like the seller is a good person for offering to take it back!

thanks, everyone!

Steve Brewer's latest saddle (in the Gallery) got me thinking... other than the seat, it's entirely tooled (nice job, Steve!), a choice his client would have decided to make. It got me thinking... what's the original purpose of tooling? Does tooling on the jockeys help you grip the saddle better by making it less slick? Does it strengthen the leather? Does it make stains and general wear and tear less obvious? Or has it always been simply about aesthetics? And would tooling on the jockeys ever chaff the inside of your leg on a long ride (or would your butt be too sore after a few hours to even notice...)? Thanks, all! Joanne

They may not be elitists but they certainly create some of the most elite work I've ever seen -- and I mean that as a total compliment! What incredible work. Is there much of a market for these items? They're astonishingly expensive. Or do some of them get donated to museums? As much as I'd love to sit in it, I can't imagine anyone putting that $96,000 saddle outfit of Dale Harwood's on a smelly ol' horse! Thanks for this, Darce. Now I've got a reason to want to get rich!

Very, very nice saddle! The tooling is particularly beautiful. Thanks for posting the pic!

Another very nice saddle, Steve! Thanks for posting the pics.

Very nice work, JW!

Greg, I understand that the key to using saddle soap is that you have to make sure you rinse it completely off, even if the product label says you don't have to. Is that your experience, too? I've found that Oakwood makes a very nice saddle soap.

Thanks, Steve -- much appreciated!

Does the extra half-inch provide a lot more strength? Interesting story, Bruce, about the relatively new half-stirrups that broke on your BIL. I'm always looking for less between me and the horse (my current production saddle doesn't do such a fabulous job at that...) but I also like the idea of continuing to sit in the thing.

I see! So, instead of having three layers of leather between your leg and the horse -- the fender, the stirrup leather going down to the stirrup and then the stirrup leather going back up -- you only have two. Which leads me to yet another question: are half stirrup leathers as strong as the standard "circle" leather style? Or do you have to sacrifice a little strength to get the closer contact? I would imagine that, even if the leather broke (ideally you'd have kept an eye on it and replaced it before it actually gave way while you were sitting in the saddle, leaning hard into the stirrup...), it would be a reasonably straightforward repair. Thanks for your patience and generosity in answering my questions! -- Joanne

So Steve, is it easier to oil the leathers because you can lift them out of the seat? Thanks for answering all my oh so basic questions! -- Joanne

Thanks for your reply, JW. I haven't heard of half-leathers. Would you happen to have a photo of one you could post? Thanks again! -- Joanne

Beautiful work, JW. Not being a saddlemaker myself, I can't point out exactly what it is that makes them so perfect but for me, a good saddle (like these) just look, well, calm. I guess that's because everything is in balance and the leather is good quality. I have a few questions, though. First, what is a Buster Welch Roping tree? Is it a style, or is it called that because Buster makes them? Also, in the saddle on the left, you can see the stirrup leather cut through the seat (I'm sure there's a much more technical term for it...). What are the advantages of building a saddle that way? And would it ever cause discomfort should you rub against it (or is the cut further forward than the leg or seat would ever be)? And finally, I've noticed a few fenders with the stirrup leathers on the outside, like they are on both of these saddles. Again, what's the advantage of that? And does it mean that you must always ride with tall boots or they'll pinch, just like English leathers pinch if you're not wearing tall boots or half-chaps? Thanks! And let me say again, I think they're absolutely beautiful saddles. -- Joanne

ArtS, for the past couple of months, I've been riding in a Billy Cook Ranch saddle (a decent production saddle) with a hard, slick seat and I really like the feel of it. It looks slippery and hard -- which I suppose it is! -- but I'm very comfortable in it. I've been on a couple of 2- and 3-hour trail rides and haven't been uncomfortable at all (and I only have a regular amount of padding on my own tush... not too big, not too small...). If I were going to do an all-day ride, I'd probably invest in a sheepskin tush cush, but as it is, it's great for arena work and regular trail rides. In fact, my gelding did a huge spook today and I stayed right in the middle of the saddle. He didn't get far -- he's a pretty sensible horse -- but he's got a huge, powerful hind end so the initial jump can be pretty big. And the saddle didn't feel slick in the slightest. When I eventually order my custom saddle, I'll definitely want a hard, slick seat. I figure that if I find this production saddle seat comfortable, then a custom one should be amazing! Here's a picture of it:

Thanks for your replies, everyone. I really appreciate the level of expertise on this board, as well as the generosity you all show in sharing it. Shelly, it sounds like a properly-built saddle with anything other than in-skirt rigging is going to add quite a lot of extra leather. Any idea how much extra weight it adds? And thanks, Tosch, for the link to a previous rigging thread. In it, tnestes claims that he's had more in-skirt repairs than other types in his shop; could that possibly be because they're either production line saddles, where we can assume (for the most part) that there isn't the same attention to detail as on a custom saddle, or that there are also inferior custom saddles out there? (Gotta happen, though not from you folks, I'm sure!) Shelly remarked that she sees more D-ring repairs than in-skirt. Great stories about your husband's ranch life, Shelly. It sounds like he sure puts a saddle through its paces! Thanks again, everyone. Much appreciated! -- Joanne

If I understand correctly, in-skirt rigging is the best way to avoid bulk under your leg, giving you better contact with the horse and making it easier to drap your leg around the horse. But does it sacrifice strength at all? Leather stretches and I can imagine the skirt leather stretching in a not-so-good way. Other rigging styles have separate pieces of leather which can stretch without altering the shape of the skirt. Or at least, that's how I imagine it could happen. Am I right? Thanks in advance for everyone's input! -- Joanne

That's incredible work, Pella! My eyes would be totally crossed -- and would stay that way forever -- if I had to do all that stitching by hand. Beautiful.

I'd like to cast a vote for the golden over the orange sheepskins. I only admire saddles, not build them, but much prefer to admire the less volcanic-looking ones. The orange colour just doesn't look quite right....

Thanks, Darc, I'll take you up on that! Much appreciated -- -- Joanne

I hope you all don't mind me posting a "saddle wanted" topic here -- it's not directly related to working with leather, but I hope that's alright. I'd like to have a custom saddle made before too long but that's a year or so away (ideally not much longer) and I can't ride bareback until then! I need a wide saddle for my 15.2hh, big-shouldered gelding and am having a terrible time finding one. Quarter-horse bars, not even the wider ones, seem to do the trick, so it should probably be full quarter horse bars with a good flare at the front of the bars. I love the old saddles but they don't seem to have enough flare in the shoulders for my guy. I like a fairly flat seat (so no reining saddles, unfortunately -- their slightly tipped-back seats, where you're neatly held in the "pocket," is great for reining and general ring riding but I find them uncomfortable for sitting in on long trail rides) and stirrups that hang such that my heels are held easily under my hips. I really love the ranch-style saddles but haven't found a lot of used ones for sale. My butt requires a 15.5 to 16" seat. Does anyone have an old, reasonably-priced saddle they're looking to move on to a new home? I don't want to invest a lot of money since it'll just be a stop-gap saddle until I get a really good one from one of you folks, but of course it has to be a proper fit and decent quality so I'm not hoping for a total miracle in terms of price! And of course, I'd pay for shipping if you're not conveniently located here western Canada's lower mainland. I've attached some conformation photos of my horse. They're not fabulous quality and may not have all the information you need but I'm happy to take different photos if you think that'd help. Thanks! Joanne

Just had a thought... if those of you who make trees (or the whole thing, from tree through finished saddle) can actually see the horse in person ( as it were), do you still need/like to have the information that a system like Dennis Lane's offers? Or can you take your own measurements as needed and move forward from there? Thanks! Joanne

Thanks for the advice, everyone! And yes, Andy, I've ridden in a few of your saddles (Lois Hannah is a very good friend of mine and she has two of yours) and there's been nary a squeak. But these production line saddles are something else... sometimes I can hardly hear myself think! I haven't actually settled on a saddle yet. My appy gelding has HUGE shoulders and is proving incredibly difficult to fit but I've noticed a lot of the production saddles I've had out on trial -- even the used ones -- are very loud. And not anywhere near as beautiful as the ones so many of you folks make... ah, some day soon, I hope!

I'm considering buying a newish Billy Cook ranch saddle that squeaks like the dickens. I've heard of using baby powder but imagine that could mess up the leather. So until I can line up a custom saddle that most surely will not have this unfortunate sound, does anyone have any advice on how to make my ride more quiet? (It could be a while before that custom saddle hits my horse's back....) Thanks! Joanne