eBay=feeBay

[MADMAX22]

Not exactly... In 2004 they purchased 25% from another employee/shareholder. eBay and Craigslist are in a battle now since eBay used their shareholder knowledge to create their classified site, Kijiji. I worked with several people from San Francisco that worked with and knew Craig intimately. They relayed many aspects of the story in April and May of 2008.

I looked for some confirmation online and here you go... See links below.

eBay Stake in Craigslist

Craigslist Fights Back Against eBay

Regards,

Ben

Thanks, sorry I had followed some of it for a bit but then didnt follow it much later on. Glad its not outright.

[Go2Tex]

..................Still ebay is killing itself which is normal for companies to do when they get real big because the people's brains at the top start to lose all concept of common sense and holes start to form like in the mad cow disease.

Oh, that is too funny! LMAO! And all so true in so many cases. It's the way people rise to the top in a large organization that is the root of the problem. You don't get promoted by making waves and telling people what they need to hear. No, you rise to the top of the dung heap by being able and willing to tell people whatever it is they "want" to hear. You must be a cheerleader for whatever ridiculous scheme-of-the-week comes along. A "team player" is code for "go along to get along".

The amount of productivity that is lost in every company and government agency in the country every day because people are doing senseless things mandated by "mad cow" upper management would be staggering if anyone knew how much it really is. Nobody knows just exactly how much time is wasted because they don't keep track of it. There are no metrics on that stuff. Oh no. Keeping metrics on things like ethics training for adults that should know better would be, eh, ...politically incorrect.

Well, I could rant all day about this and probably pi**off a lot of folks, but it has nothing to do with leather and it sure ain't getting any leather work done or sold, so.............

I'll just leave ya'll with this final thought for the day. If by chance you should wander upon Ebay during the day while at your place of employment on company time using company resources, all of which are strictly forbidden by company policy, remember that Big Brother is watching............ bwahahahahaha

[UKRay]

I've sat back and watched this thread with interest, but it seems that some people are missing an important point. For most people, eBay serves an important function. It allows them to get rid of stuff they don't want without having to try too hard to sell it. Folk simply put their junk on 'the bay' and watch it trundle away down the road a week or so later whilst they are jingling a few coins in their pockets.

Now that is fine if what you are selling is junk and you are happy to get whatever you can for it. A few cents/dollars either way don't make much difference. The critical issue comes when you want to sell something you value for the 'market price'.

If you set up a stall on a street corner or open a high street shop then you will get the 'market price' you choose because you are setting the trading rules.

If you put goods on consignment in another traders store you make less money because they are setting the rules. If you don't like their rules then you don't have to sell through them, you can always open your own store or sell elsewhere.

If you do choose to open your own store you may not sell as much but sure as hell your percentages will be higher when you do make a sale - but just remember the overheads... it costs a lot of money to operate a store of any kind - online or bricks and mortar. It may be that the only way you can make enough profit to stay afloat is by increasing the volume of the goods you sell - more stuff through the door equals more profit.

Likewise, if you put your goods on eBay, of course you make less because - guess what - eBay sets the rules. These rules favour those who make lots of low value, high volume sales (I believe they call them Power Sellers) because that is the direction eBay likes to travel. Lots of sales equal lots of commission. The amounts of money involved are often quite low but they represent a high percentage of the transaction value.

Therefore, if you sell high value goods (saddles, bags and other well made leathery stuff) they feel entitled to make the same percentages from you - and why not? It is their store after all.

The answer may simply be to walk away and find another route to market that pays enough to make it worthwhile. Standing around and whining about an organisation that is making honest money is simply sour grapes. If you want to make money from your leatherwork then best get off your backsides and start looking for ways to promote it to a wider audience. eBay isn't the only way to sell.

On a personal level, I an happy to deal through eBay as long as I make a respectable profit. It allows me to sell my stuff in a worldwide marketplace and I simply accept that I will make more money when I sell elsewhere. I won't cut off any of my routes to market because that would be stupid. I simply make sure the things I sell on eBay carry a high enough percentage to pay the charges. Just good business practice...

The PayPal monopoly isn't an issue for me either. It is simply a legitimate business expense. I always sell on a fixed price, buy now basis and so, just like with shipping charges, the purchaser picks up the tab for the convenience of buying on eBay. They also pay a premium for being able to pay me with Paypal. I don't put it in those terms on the listings but you don't have to be a genius to work out that somebody somewhere is paying for the convenience PayPal and eBay offer - and it isn't me!

I haven't said anything here you don't already know and have no intention of getting into an arguement with anyone about it. I just wanted to have my two cents - this is an open forum after all!

Have a good week.

[jbird]

Yes Ray this is certainly a open forum and every one has a right chime in well I might not think much of my self but I do every one else,

Any way I think you make good points and right on but for me it still comes down what's fare and right I can't stomach the fact that they are making a killing off those strugling to make ends meat and yes they should make money but i don't know I guess I just don't like big companys they give a great service but with out the heart you know the what's good for you is good for me small time out look, but I must say you are a good writer and a man that knows his mind so with that I say there are too sides to every thing and I value your opinion cheers as you say over there and god speed.

Josh

Edited January 14, 2009 by jbird

[Jordan]

Pretty funny post about corps losing sight. The people at the top forget what and who is generating the cash and they start walking around experiencing perpetual brain farts! You know there is trouble when their meetings have meetings to discuss who is bringing the dognuts to the next meeting!

[Go2Tex]

Pretty funny post about corps losing sight. The people at the top forget what and who is generating the cash and they start walking around experiencing perpetual brain farts! You know there is trouble when their meetings have meetings to discuss who is bringing the dognuts to the next meeting!

I kid you not, we actually had meetings to think of reasons to have weekly staff meetings, which were mandated by some upper level madcow sufferer. Aahh, the good ol' days. Damn, I don't miss 'em!

[UKRay]

Yes Ray this is certainly a open forum and every one has a right chime in well I might not think much of my self but I do every one else,

Any way I think you make good points and right on but for me it still comes down what's fare and right I can't stomach the fact that they are making a killing off those strugling to make ends meat and yes they should make money but i don't know I guess I just don't like big companys they give a great service but with out the heart you know the what's good for you is good for me small time out look, but I must say you are a good writer and a man that knows his mind so with that I say there are too sides to every thing and I value your opinion cheers as you say over there and god speed.

Josh

Y'know Josh, you are a very kind and generous man but I wonder if you are undervaluing yourself and your leathergoods. That hair-on belt you made a few days ago was just as good as most I've seen. The quality of the leather looked excellent and you worked hard at it. In my eyes, that makes it a thing of value.

Would you mind telling me how much you value that belt at? The reason I ask is that Bree made a good point a few weeks back when she talked about people failing to recognise the worth of their work. It would be good to hear what other people feel about this.

I believe eBay is a great place to sell but IMHO people really need to pitch their stuff really well to get the best price for it. if you don't have confidence that your stuff is worth the money then perhaps you won't write a convincing listing. Hence you won't get the price you really want or need.

Yes, this is patently unfair because someone like me who makes their living from writing technical and commercial copy (advertising, marketing and suchlike) obviously has more experience in writing sales copy so their (possibly lower grade stuff) stuff may be inclined to sell faster than if a person who makes really excellent stuff simply lists what they are trying to sell.

Would it help if we all put together some tips and hints for ebay selling and posted them in the marketing section? At the very least it would give a starting point for discussion about the best way to work eBay and come out of it with a profit.

Despite the negative feeling about 'the bay' I don't think this situation is entirely eBay's fault. They have simply followed the trail to the money. By this I mean that the big bucks on eBay are being made by those people who sell thousands of cheap products and allow eBay to scoop a chunk off the top of their profit. eBay are simply led by market forces.

Look at the businesses that do well on eBay - packaging material suppliers make a small fortune - now I wonder why?

I have an eBay shop and it does okay. Nothing even slightly spectacular but enough to make it worthwhile continuing to pay the bills, but I am already looking for more exciting ways of selling my stock online. - I don't know what they are yet but I'm confident they will turn up as people find better ways to use the internet. Just keep looking and let me know if you find 'em before me!

[jbird]

Ray I like chating with you, your man that can see both sides I like that it speeks well of you and thanks for the kind words about my stuff you know I sold that belt for $65 and had oh some $45 bucks in matiarel plus help with mateial from a good member know I loved that belt it was a lot of work my own design and sore hands plus

I had dye and other things may be made $ 15 when all said and done I relize that I am a juinor member of the leather biz so I like to listen and to answer your question I think do tend to under price my goods, you are right

eBay has done what any company would do and I really blame under cut company that buy from china using child labor and so that company can sell a little less and make more money than they should that makes it hard to sell at a fare price you get were I am coming from a man is worth his hire and so are companys doing things the right way well I wondered but I still say that a sight made for and only for crafters for saling there stuff might work a union , in away that's my half cent worth and when it comes to talk I don't value my thought to high.

Josh

P.S some of my stuff might not be spelled right I am on my iphone and there no spell check and I am some what dislexic

Edited January 14, 2009 by jbird

[Go2Tex]

Ray, I can't argue with any of what you just posted. But what got me started on this tirade against Ebay is the underhanded, decptive way that they are trying to grease it to us. They keep saying they made Paypal mandatory to make the transaction more safe for the buyers. Well, that's blatently not true and everyone with a hint of a brain can figure that out pretty darn quick. There are millions of transactions that go on 24 hrs a day and most of them are just fine. So why would they care? Well, maybe their lawyers decided they might be held liable so just to cover their own glutes they come up with this brilliant idea. It just so happens it probably doubled their bottom line. So why not just say so?

Plus, their attitude is just so smarmy, bathing themselves in liberal self righteousness, refusing to allow any auctions that show a real or suspected firearm in them even as props in holsters. Who do they think they are, the Internet Morality Police? I doubt anyone ever shot their eye out with a picture of a BB gun. But you know how stupid these gun grabbing fear mongers are. It's like the school officials sending some kid home from school because he brought a toy gun, a G.I. Joe TOY to school. OH MY GOD!!! THE SKY IS FALLING...WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE. JOHNNY BROUGHT A RUBBER GUN TO SCHOOL!!!!!!!

OH MY GOD. JOHNNY TRIED TO SELL HIS G.I.JOE TOY GUN ON EBAY. AAAAHHHHHRRRRGGGG!!!!!!!!!!! REPORT THAT BLEEPIN' SOB TO THE EBAY POLICE!!!!

And I bet they're the same people that are all for having computers in public libraries with full access to everything that is on the Internet, because wooooooo, that's freedom of expression. OOOHHH, that's like burning books to restrict any information in a sacred library. Yeah, and here's 7 yr old Johnny sitting there gettin' his eyes full of the most vile stuff imaginable but by God he sure isn't out there in the street playing with TOY GUNS!!!!

Whew.... I need a drink. Is it 5 oclock anywhere yet?

Edited January 14, 2009 by Go2Tex

[UKRay]

Josh, I have just run a couple of searches for belts a little like yours - you may find this interesting:

RANGER STYLE BELT:

Dye colors=Black., Brown., Tan, Natural-Oil.

(a.) #6-7, PLAIN (no tooling), Body width choice =1-1/4" or 1-1/2", billets 3/4" or 1".

Single Layer =$100.00 Lined and Machine Stitched = $140.00

...and this was not the only one I found. I'll be honest and say this belt looked very nice indeed but it won't be long before your belts look even better. Get those stitch sizes sorted like Bruce suggested and it will make a world of difference. You could be charging at least $100 for a belt like yours if it were finished well and promoted properly.

You might also want to look around and see if you are paying a bit more than you need to for materials. That sounded like a lot of money to me. Can anyone in the US comment on this please as I'm not in touch with pricing over the water. If I'm right and you can reduce your costs substantially, you can't help but make more money.

I suspect that, as you are just getting into your stride, you may be buying small quantities and paying a premium for it. Is there anyone else you know who would split an order or two with you so you both save money?

Regarding the 'made in China' thing, once again, we are all competing in a global marketplace. There are some fantastic leatherworkers in China - just look at those amazing carvings we have seen from John Barton's guys and Mr Bobocat - and they are all selling on eBay too. Their overheads are less than ours so they can sell more cheaply. We just have to make our goods more desirable and work harder to market to a homeland audience. Sell US made products to an American audience and be proud of your work - it will do you more good than worrying about being undercut by 'sweatshop' labour in China.

Why not make a big thing of Handmade in the USA - I'll bet there are enough patriots that will buy your work on the strength of that alone. Most important of all, never stop trying to improve your work. Every time you improve your skills it will become easier to sell what you make.

Enough - I have rambled on far too long. Good luck Josh, I enjoy watching your leatherwork develop. R.