1933 Hamley Saddle Restoration

[hjones]

First I want to say hello to the fine folks here. Spent a lot of time reading posts and finally signed up to inquire about my family saddle. My guess is this saddle has been in my family since the 1940s, since my grandfather, my father, and myself have all ridden it. Built in 1933 by Henry Donis at Hamley, it is number 580, also known as the "Triangle". Serial number D8, originally sold to a James E Gunzaler (or Gonzolos, Gonzales, etc.) on September 19, 1933. I haven't ridden in many years, but have kept the saddle since it is a family heirloom so to speak. It's not in great shape, hopefully I'll be able to upload the pictures. I've never inquired about saddle restoration before, so I'm not sure what to expect. So my question is, what kind of cost should I expect, and what are your opinions on restoring a saddle of this age? Leave it as is to preserve the history, showing the wear and use, or restore and have as a show piece? 

So I see there is a very small size limit to attachments here on the forum. Maybe I can just reply to my own thread and add one picture per reply lol

Thanks! 

Another pic

[hjones]

Okay, the forum does not like my pics lol. So, we'll try this, a link to the photos. https://imgur.com/a/GIQyXTw

[Northmount]

3 hours ago, hjones said:

Okay, the forum does not like my pics lol. So, we'll try this, a link to the photos. https://imgur.com/a/GIQyXTw

Please upload your photos here.  3rd party links often result in no picture when user or host change permissions, move, or delete the photos.  Then the thread is useless.

Check out this post for suggestions and helps.  Many posts following it with more helps.  Then come back and upload your photos here.

 

[hjones]

3 hours ago, Northmount said:

Please upload your photos here.  3rd party links often result in no picture when user or host change permissions, move, or delete the photos.  Then the thread is useless.

Check out this post for suggestions and helps.  Many posts following it with more helps.  Then come back and upload your photos here.

 

Thanks for the info, I understand about links resulting in no pictures due to security permissions, site going down, etc. Yes, I have an iPhone and it takes hi resolution pictures. I tried multiple JPEG shrinking sites and software but still could not get them under 1.46mb, which given todays technology, is an incredibly small size. I even tried compressing (shrinking as it's called in the post you referenced) the already compressed pictures lol. Anyway, if I've violated rules or whatever, my apologies, just have an admin delete the post. Not being a smarta**, but as a 20+ year IT professional, I can only laugh at the 1.46mb file size, and I'm not going to dumb down my tech just for one site.

[Northmount]

49 minutes ago, hjones said:

Thanks for the info, I understand about links resulting in no pictures due to security permissions, site going down, etc. Yes, I have an iPhone and it takes hi resolution pictures. I tried multiple JPEG shrinking sites and software but still could not get them under 1.46mb, which given todays technology, is an incredibly small size. I even tried compressing (shrinking as it's called in the post you referenced) the already compressed pictures lol. Anyway, if I've violated rules or whatever, my apologies, just have an admin delete the post. Not being a smarta**, but as a 20+ year IT professional, I can only laugh at the 1.46mb file size, and I'm not going to dumb down my tech just for one site.

Your choice, no one is trying to put you down or force you to do anything.  What's 20 years against 40 years?  I manage fine with all the IT work I have done for years, starting with magnetic core memory, probably before you were born.

[Sheilajeanne]

Okay, here's how I resize pictures. All MS operating system computers that I've owned have an app called 'Paint' Open the picture in 'Paint' and from the top menue, choose 'resize'. Since the pictures are so large, I resize by reducing the number of pixels rather than going by percentage. In this case, I chose 800 pixels. The other dimension of the picture will resize automatically. Hit 'save as', give it a new title, and bingo, you're in business!

 

Continuing...

 

[Sheilajeanne]

Won't let me upload the last one, as I've exceeded the number of allowed MB. Maybe the OP can do it now that I've explained how to reduce the size. I could have made them even smaller by reducing the number of pixels further. Even 500 pixels gives a nice sized clear picture, suitable for posting on the internet.

Right-click on the photo to get the option to open it in Paint (or whatever other app you choose.)

And you don't have to give the picture a new title unless you want to save the original photo at its original size. Just save the smaller one and it will over-write the original.

It would be interesting to see what the saddle would look like after a good cleaning and treatment with some leather balm/NFO. You'd definitely want to replace the stirrup leathers and rigging for safety's sake, if you were going to use it, but the seat and skirts might be salvageable with some TLC>

Edited October 7, 2022 by Sheilajeanne

[Northmount]

The remaining photo.

I doubt @hjones will be back.  One thing that he fails to realize is that hi-res photos don't display in hi-res on most computer monitors, tablets, and phones, so there is really little reason to post hi-res photos here.  Most people are not downloading photos from here, but rather looking at them on screen.  But as he says, he knows all about IT with his 20 years of experience.

 

 

[Burkhardt]

3 hours ago, Northmount said:

The remaining photo.

I doubt @hjones will be back.  One thing that he fails to realize is that hi-res photos don't display in hi-res on most computer monitors, tablets, and phones, so there is really little reason to post hi-res photos here.  Most people are not downloading photos from here, but rather looking at them on screen.  But as he says, he knows all about IT with his 20 years of experience.

 

 

I tried to upload some pictures after compressing and surprised that they wouldn't upload but I had already done @Sheilajeanne way of doing it so now I know.

[Sheilajeanne]

Well, even if he's not coming back, I'm curious to know what y'all think about restoring the saddle! 

Always hoping to learn something new. I rode English for many years, and one of the saddles I used regularly belonged to my instructor. I have no idea how old it was, but I'm guessing at least 40 or 50 years, as it dated from his days in the cavalry. It had been well cared for and was in excellent shape.

[BlackDragon]

First off I would start brushing off the dust and dirt with a light brush, then a good cleaning, and after that I would condition the leather.

You would have to decide if the saddle is going to be put back into service or just sit in a corner.

If it goes back into service I would replace any pieces that wont survive much use. Like the leather tie offs, cinch & stirrups or other rigging points, etc.

If it's going to just sit in a corner I would dust it from time to time and condition it once a year.

[Sheilajeanne]

If I were going to use it, I'd also check the fleece lining to make sure it's in good enough condition to protect the back of the horse. Not so big a concern with a western saddle, due to the thick saddle cloths they used, but better safe than sorry! Saddle sores take a long time to heal.

And the horn definitely needs a bit of attention - maybe replacing the stitching would be enough to fix it.

[chuck123wapati]

11 hours ago, Sheilajeanne said:

Well, even if he's not coming back, I'm curious to know what y'all think about restoring the saddle! 

Always hoping to learn something new. I rode English for many years, and one of the saddles I used regularly belonged to my instructor. I have no idea how old it was, but I'm guessing at least 40 or 50 years, as it dated from his days in the cavalry. It had been well cared for and was in excellent shape.

no to much dry rot in places you cant see, imo your taking your safety as well as the horses in your hands. I would clean it up a bit get an accurate assessment of its collectability or worth then either oil it up a bit and make it a personal show piece or sell it to some cowboy bar as a wall hanger.  Old uncared for saddles are very plentiful. 

[Sheilajeanne]

Chuck, I think its worth is in its history with the family. Doubt he'll part with it.

It really doesn't look in bad shape, but yeah, any rigging would need replacement if it was going to be used.

I used to hang out with a member of Canada's Governor Generals Horse Guards Calvary Squadron. He told me his newest piece of equipment was a curb bit dated 1916.  So, tack and saddles can last and still be functional if well taken care of. 

http://www.gghgsociety.org/cavalry/

Edited October 9, 2022 by Sheilajeanne

[hjones]

Thanks for all the comments and resizing using Paint.

No, won't be selling it, and won't be putting it back in service. It's staying with me since it's been in my family for so long. @MikeRock mentioned something in a PM about the pommel tips being unique. The ladies at Hamley I spoke to mentioned the same thing. I have no one in my family that is still alive to ask about it, so what are the thoughts about that from you fine folks?

-HJ

[chuck123wapati]

45 minutes ago, hjones said:

Thanks for all the comments and resizing using Paint.

No, won't be selling it, and won't be putting it back in service. It's staying with me since it's been in my family for so long. @MikeRock mentioned something in a PM about the pommel tips being unique. The ladies at Hamley I spoke to mentioned the same thing. I have no one in my family that is still alive to ask about it, so what are the thoughts about that from you fine folks?

-HJ

i think they may be a very unique repair job. they appear to be nailed on so the saddle wouldn't have to be taken apart to make the repair. same with the rawhide on the cantle, i have an old one in that condition the cantle leather has been worn off along the top . Its has a lot of good stories if it could only talk.

[hjones]

@chuck123wapati you're probably right. And I definitely wish this one could talk. Been hauling it around with me for years and finally got around to finding out the history. Wish I could find out how it ended up in my family all those years ago, because the original purchaser has no ties (that I know of) to my family. All I know is my grandfather rode it prior to my dad being born, he was born in 1937, so those first few years are a mystery.

[tsunkasapa]

For the record, Hamley is still open in Pendleton. I doubt they are quite the same as back then, but they might give you some more info. I stop in every year when I go to the Pendleton leather show in November.

[hjones]

On 10/12/2022 at 8:47 PM, tsunkasapa said:

For the record, Hamley is still open in Pendleton. I doubt they are quite the same as back then, but they might give you some more info. I stop in every year when I go to the Pendleton leather show in November.

@tsunkasapa yeah I've been in contact with them several times about this one. Great people! They sent me the original ledger page from when it was built and who it was sold to, and I'm waiting on my certificate on it.

[Msofun]

I’m in the same boat with a child saddle code on tag but don’t know the maker. Left at my mom’s stable and we used it on my son’s pony. Stirrup is wired together on one and enclosed in leather. I was leading my little nephew with it one a full sized horse when he kicked and the horse went straight up. Glad I was leading. He thought it was fun and wanted to do it again! Lol. That’s when I found the sharp end of the twisted wire on the stirrup and never used it again. Read up on codes and determined it’s a 1933 but model below is 33055   No makers name that I can find. Any ideas? Friend says it’s her son’s and wants it now years and years later and I told her I would give it to her.  Rather her grandchildren enjoy it and mine will not   She thought it was Simco or Billy Cook? Any help? Good condition and told her stirrup would need replacing. I hate to give it away but I have another priceless one my mom’s best friend had when her dad had Tennessee Walkers. They were born in 1927! Fully restored. 

[saddlepolly]

On 2/18/2024 at 10:40 AM, Msofun said:

I’m in the same boat with a child saddle code on tag but don’t know the maker. Left at my mom’s stable and we used it on my son’s pony. Stirrup is wired together on one and enclosed in leather. I was leading my little nephew with it one a full sized horse when he kicked and the horse went straight up. Glad I was leading. He thought it was fun and wanted to do it again! Lol. That’s when I found the sharp end of the twisted wire on the stirrup and never used it again. Read up on codes and determined it’s a 1933 but model below is 33055   No makers name that I can find. Any ideas? Friend says it’s her son’s and wants it now years and years later and I told her I would give it to her.  Rather her grandchildren enjoy it and mine will not   She thought it was Simco or Billy Cook? Any help? Good condition and told her stirrup would need replacing. I hate to give it away but I have another priceless one my mom’s best friend had when her dad had Tennessee Walkers. They were born in 1927! Fully restored. 

Do you have a picture of the child's saddle? Simco and bona Allen both used a daisy stamp in the tooling or on the horn ( sometimes) but both had a different number of petals.. theres alot of old tricks to identify the old unmarked saddles