Help choosing a cylinder arm machine

[SandyinAnaheim]

Hello everyone! I’m a first-time poster looking for machine advice.

I am a newbie bagmaker working mainly with vinyls and faux leathers, and will likely be using various types of canvas, denim and webbing in the future. I have a great domestic machine that I don’t want to overtax experimenting with bagmaking or frustrate myself with the wrong tool(s) for the job.

After reading and researching for a few months, I’ve determined that I’d like to add a compound feed cylinder arm to my arsenal. I’ve spent quite a few hours in the archives reading all the helpful threads on them.  I am a firm believer in buying the best I can afford and not having to rebuy a better machine once I outgrow the original purchase. I want to buy once, well and wisely. While I never say never, I don’t foresee using leather in my future.

I have narrowed down my choices to: Thor GC 1341, Titan GN-1341,TechSew 4800 Pro, Cobra Class 26, Pfaff 335 and Juki LS 1431. I am aware that the Juki is what all these other clones are based on, and some of them have more features than the Juki for less.

My goal is to work on small, structured handbags and wallets, and I have some likely unfounded concerns on cylinder arm diameters. Most of these machines come with a 3” cylinder arm diameter, which I’ve read may not be optimal on smaller projects like the gussets on small handbags. I know TechSew has the 2600 Pro which has a diameter of 1 7/8”, but the trade off is shorter max stitch length, less heavy thread options, less needle options and less thickness capacity under the needle. I don’t know if the diameter difference should be a concern, but I haven’t seen that question asked in my research on the forum.

What are your thoughts on which of these machines I should be considering seriously, and which ones are not suited to my needs, if any? I know I missed all the holiday deals while I was researching, but is there another time of year I should wait for in order to get a good deal?

Thanks in advance for sharing your time and expertise.

[JREESER1]

You are very near Leather Machine Co., in Ontario, Ca. I have 2 of their machines. A Cobra 4 and a Class 26. The Class 26 is absolutely superb for anything leather up to 3/8" thick. (About 24 oz.)  It will handle up to #138 thread.  Both fabric and leather needles are readily available. The Cobra 4 is mostly for heavy duty work, up to about 3/4"-7/8 ". 

I have dealt with Steve and Dave, both are great!! I have found them both very honest and offer superb customer service.

jr.

I would contact them at:

Leather Machine Co, Inc. Warehouse 2141 E. Philadelphia St. “U” Ontario, California.

91761 Business Hours: 7 am to 3:15 pm (PST), Monday thru Friday

Contact: Customer Service 7 am to 3:15 pm (PST), Monday thru Friday 866-962-9880 For technical or mechanical issues please email: info@leathermachineco.com

 

 

[kgg]

2 hours ago, SandyinAnaheim said:

I am aware that the Juki is what all these other clones are based on, and some of them have more features than the Juki for less.

If you can afford a Juki LS 1341 cut to the chase and buy one. The PFAFF 335 will have limited attachments available, limit your thread size to maybe V92 as well as parts will be more expensive then a Juki or clone. If you decide on a clone machine choose a dealer that you think will supply the best service.

kgg

[SandyinAnaheim]

3 hours ago, JREESER1 said:

You are very near Leather Machine Co., in Ontario, Ca. I have 2 of their machines. A Cobra 4 and a Class 26. The Class 26 is absolutely superb for anything leather up to 3/8" thick. (About 24 oz.)  It will handle up to #138 thread.  Both fabric and leather needles are readily available. The Cobra 4 is mostly for heavy duty work, up to about 3/4"-7/8 ". 

I have dealt with Steve and Dave, both are great!! I have found them both very honest and offer superb customer service.

jr.

 

Thank you Jr. I was considering visiting them next week as I've heard nothing but good things about their customer service and being local is an obvious benefit. In addition, it might alter my thinking as to the Cobra 26. While I really have been considering it as a viable option, TRULY no offense to anyone who has and loves theirs, it's at the bottom of my list, right in front of the Juki. I love the small footprint but frankly, it's hideous....and doesn't seem as feature-filled as some of the other clones. Not to mention, I've read multiple accounts of people who've either never been able to get the timing right on it or have continuous issues with the timing. As a total novice, that scares me a little bit.

[Chakotay]

4 hours ago, JREESER1 said:

You are very near Leather Machine Co., in Ontario, Ca. I have 2 of their machines. A Cobra 4 and a Class 26. The Class 26 is absolutely superb for anything leather up to 3/8" thick. (About 24 oz.)  It will handle up to #138 thread.  Both fabric and leather needles are readily available. The Cobra 4 is mostly for heavy duty work, up to about 3/4"-7/8 ". 

 

I normally run #207 thread in my Class 26. I've even accidentally run #277 on the top (grabbed the wrong spool.) It ran fine. 

[SandyinAnaheim]

1 hour ago, kgg said:

If you can afford a Juki LS 1341 cut to the chase and buy one. The PFAFF 335 will have limited attachments available, limit your thread size to maybe V92 as well as parts will be more expensive then a Juki or clone. If you decide on a clone machine choose a dealer that you think will supply the best service.

kgg

Thank you kgg. Can you please elaborate as to why you'd prefer the Juki LS 1341? Besides being the most expensive of the bunch, it has a max stitch length of 6 mm and seems to have fewer thread thickness options and less  bells and whistles than say, the TechSew 4800 Pro. Based upon comparison of specs vs cost, I think I'm leaning towards the Thor or TechSew, and while there will ALWAYS be complainers, the vast majority of vendor reviews for Sunny Sewing for Thor and TechSew are overwhelmingly positive. I don't hear complaints of timing issues like with the Cobra 26.

I realize that I know nothing and may not be evaluating these machines properly, which is why I'm here, so please forgive me if I come across as ignorant...because I am in this arena.  Thank you!

[kgg]

4 minutes ago, SandyinAnaheim said:

Can you please elaborate as to why you'd prefer the Juki LS 1341?

I do like the Juki machines and yes they are expensive but they are easier to sell and command a higher resale value while parts and accessories are readily available. They are usually the ones that the clones are copied after and the quality is excellent. I like to get my machines shall we say fresh off the boat and the Juki's right out of the box are ready to work. They have the engineering and quality controls in place right down to proper operating and engineering manuals unlike some clones where instructions are to say the least needing or they refer you to a Juki manual.

Since this is going to be your main machine buy the best you can afford and invest in a table top attachment if you decide on a cylinder bed machine for things that are better done normally on a flatbed machine. If most of items you are sewing are better done on flatbed get a new flatbed and pickup a good used cylinder bed for the occasions you need a cylinder bed machine or vise versa.

Since this is going to be expensive I would take a sample of the thickest material including seams along with the max thread size that you are going to sew and visit a couple of dealers, clone or brand name.

Some clones rate there machine thread capacity by what is the largest needle that can be inserted while Juki actually underrates their max thread capacity so it will take the max size thread in both the top thread and in the bobbin in thick stuff.

kgg

[SandyinAnaheim]

22 minutes ago, kgg said:

I do like the Juki machines and yes they are expensive but they are easier to sell and command a higher resale value while parts and accessories are readily available. They are usually the ones that the clones are copied after and the quality is excellent. I like to get my machines shall we say fresh off the boat and the Juki's right out of the box are ready to work. They have the engineering and quality controls in place right down to proper operating and engineering manuals unlike some clones where instructions are to say the least needing or they refer you to a Juki manual.

Since this is going to be your main machine buy the best you can afford and invest in a table top attachment if you decide on a cylinder bed machine for things that are better done normally on a flatbed machine. If most of items you are sewing are better done on flatbed get a new flatbed and pickup a good used cylinder bed for the occasions you need a cylinder bed machine or vise versa.

Since this is going to be expensive I would take a sample of the thickest material including seams along with the max thread size that you are going to sew and visit a couple of dealers, clone or brand name.

Some clones rate there machine thread capacity by what is the largest needle that can be inserted while Juki actually underrates their max thread capacity so it will take the max size thread in both the top thread and in the bobbin in thick stuff.

kgg

Thanks so much! That was a very informative response. Unfortunately, even though I live in a metropolitan area, I don't have access to either the Thor or TechSew models. I could likely find the Juki and definitely the Cobra.

I want to make handbags as a hobbyist, without compromising the integrity of my VERY expensive sewing/embroidery machine. I don't know yet if I'd use a flatbed or cylinder aspect more often, as I've never even touched an industrial or made a real bag. But I do know that for the types of handbags I'm interested in learning to make, a cylinder arm will be invaluable. I only have one year of sewing experience but have learned a lot and progressed quickly. I plan on buying only one machine that I'll grow into and use for life, unless by some miraculous aligning of the stars I actually have some talent and need to buy a second machine. There's about a 99.99% chance of that not being the case though.    As such, resale value is not a primary concern for this purchase as I don't plan on upgrading.

I note in your tag that you have a Kobe LS 1341. How do you like that machine? I found it interesting while looking it up that the description on the site I found is nearly word-for-word identical to the Juki 1341. Now THAT'S a clone, in more ways than one. 

 

[kgg]

1 hour ago, SandyinAnaheim said:

I note in your tag that you have a Kobe LS 1341.

Yes I do have a clone LS-1341. I went to actually pickup a Juki LS-1341 and I said I'll give the Kobe a try. The dealer sells both the Juki line of machines and his branded clones. Compared to other clones in this class it's a pretty good machine and I find the dealer to be excellent to deal with. Most of the clones in this class are in reality clones of the older Juki LS-341.

When I am searching for another new machine I set a 4 hour (one way) travel distance. New machines whether brand name or clone aren't cheap so I think you really should at least have some hands on before buying if at all possible. Before I bought my Juki DNU-1541S I thought I had found a nice clone machine with decent machine reviews. So cash in hand I drove about an hour to that dealer / repair shop and gave it a run. The thing sounded like a bucket of bolts banging around in a 5 gallon metal bucket. Shortly after I drove 3 1/2 hours and bought the Juki. 

Don't be apprehensive about industrial sewing machines this day and age with the servo motor they are quieter and more energy efficient then the old clutch motor driven machines. They are even easier to operate / control then the small foot pedal operated machines like what the old domestic Singers had or the portable walking foot machines.

kgg

 

 

[SandyinAnaheim]

8 hours ago, kgg said:

Yes I do have a clone LS-1341. I went to actually pickup a Juki LS-1341 and I said I'll give the Kobe a try. The dealer sells both the Juki line of machines and his branded clones. Compared to other clones in this class it's a pretty good machine and I find the dealer to be excellent to deal with. Most of the clones in this class are in reality clones of the older Juki LS-341.

So how do you like the Kobe? Having worked on it for a while, would you buy it again? Would you consider the Thor or TechSew clones to be comparable? I would ask you, based on your historical knowledge of this forum, your opinion of TechSew's customer service record, but I realize they are a forum supporter and you wouldn't feel free to give me an honest opinion publicly.

I've searched high and low and there are exactly zero distributors of either of these brands in SoCal, so unless I can find an individual that will allow me to sit at their machine for a little while, I'm going to be SOL on that.

Edited January 8, 2023 by SandyinAnaheim

[kgg]

3 minutes ago, SandyinAnaheim said:

So how do you like the Kobe?

I haven't had any problems with the Kobe LS-1341 machine. In this class maybe another one too consider would be the Cowboy CB341.

kgg

[1hp]

these guys are in LA:

https://zamirsew.net/leather-machines/

purchased a 206RB5 about 10 years ago from them. it arrived set up perfectly.

[SandyinAnaheim]

5 hours ago, 1hp said:

these guys are in LA:

https://zamirsew.net/leather-machines/

purchased a 206RB5 about 10 years ago from them. it arrived set up perfectly.

Thank you, I'll reach out tomorrow.

[SandyinAnaheim]

I called the only two industrial sewing machine shops I could find within a 50 mile radius and neither has a Juki LS 1341 for me to try. One of the shops, while a Juki dealer, said they'd never had anyone ask for an LS 1341 or ever had one in their shop....I asked if they had ANY compound feed cylinder arm machines for me to try and they didn't understand what I was asking for and said I could come in and look at their Consew industrials. They said they mostly sell a wide variety of Juki domestics, but could order any Juki I want and would likely be received in 90 days....  The other shop is focused mainly on repairs and didn't understand what I was asking for either.

I plan on heading over to Leather Machine Co. tomorrow morning to look at the Series 26.

I'd like to hear what @Wizcrafts thoughts might be on Thor vs TechSew.

[kgg]

58 minutes ago, SandyinAnaheim said:

I plan on heading over to Leather Machine Co. tomorrow morning to look at the Series 26.

When you checkout the machines tomorrow check and make sure it reverses into the same holes as the forward stitches made.

kgg

[SandyinAnaheim]

30 minutes ago, kgg said:

When you checkout the machines tomorrow check and make sure it reverses into the same holes as the forward stitches made.

kgg

OK, I will! Thank you. I find it surprising that I can't locate a cylinder arm to try out....

[kgg]

1 hour ago, SandyinAnaheim said:

I find it surprising that I can't locate a cylinder arm to try out....

You may have to expand you search radius.

kgg

[DonInReno]

Getting a first industrial will make you wonder why you didn’t get one sooner!  One thing to keep in mind is that Industrials are not built like a domestic machine - they are made to run all day long, week after week, month after month - for occasional residential use you’ll never wear one out if it’s oiled correctly.

I don’t believe there’s some problem specific to the series 26 - the design is nothing new and their parts are comparable in quality to the better clones.   I’ve read the belly aching of a dozen different series 26 owners and every one of those seemed to resist common sense - I think the problems you’ve heard about are more a function of unfamiliarity with sewing in general, a resistance to help offered, and the buyers are trying to sew maximum thickness leather with maximum thread thickness, and not knowing what the problem really was so they blame it on timing.   

If you live near Leather Machines that would be a big advantage to a 26 - any issues would be quick to get advice or warranty work done.

If a cobra 26 is like a Toyota, then the Juki or phaff would be a Lexis - the fit and finish are better, the components are slightly better, options are fancier, it would be slightly smoother, and it would last slightly longer.   You would have to sew 6 hours a day for two decades to see the difference though.

I’d warn against putting too much weight on one manufacturers options over another unless you know for sure it’s something that would affect you.  For instance smaller diameter cylinders often mean your giving up something in return - make sure that tradeofff makes sense for you.

If you are risk adverse and want to avoid troubles keep in mind less common clones like Kobe, Thor, and Techsew are known as being more likely to have problems than Juki, Cowboy or cobra unless that’s all that’s in your budget.   There’s no free lunch - if a machine is significantly cheaper some corners were cut somewhere.  I’ve sorted out issues with those brands that were just crappy quality parts.   Maybe they are better now, or those machines just slipped by quality control, but I doubt it. 

[Frances]

This is all very interesting and informative - thank you everyone. 
I've been sewing a very long time (my mom taught sewing when I was growing up and I'm retired). I'm am interested in getting an industrial for heavier projects - bags, dog toys(!), repairs on outdoor equipment for Scouts, etc. My brain is swirling with all the things I have in mind. :-) 

I was shown a machine that I think is a TechSew. The manufacturer wasn't clearly marked, but the model number was "2150MX". 
It is a cylinder bed triple walking foot that does both zigzag and straight stitch. Needless to say it was rather pricey ($3495 new from a local dealer). It was mounted to a Consew table, but I can't find anything like it on their site. The only thing I was really told was "it took us a year to get this one". (Ok whatever on that.) The seller ran it briefly on zigzag, unplugged it and walked away. 
It looks an awful lot like the Techsew, and the closest I can find online is a Techsew 2150-2 for $3999. 

Here are my questions:
Do any of y'all have or have used a combination zigzag/straight stitch cylinder bed machine? 
Good idea/bad idea? 
Run far far away because there's too much to go wrong with it being a "combo" machine?
Would it be better to have separate machines - one zigzag and one straight stitch? 

TY-

Frances

[sewstuff]

Sandy, Did you get a Thor then? They do not seem to be mentioned online but rarely so nobody bragging or complaining? Many recommendations for Cobra Class 26. Looking for one myself sight unseen.