Leather2 Report post Posted April 8, 2023 I have an opportunity to look at a artisan toro 3000 for $1700. the machine is being sold by a leather worker who is retiring. They are including extra bobbins needles etc.. is this a good deal, what should I offer? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kgg Report post Posted April 8, 2023 2 hours ago, Leather2 said: I have an opportunity to look at a artisan toro 3000 for $1700. This is a class 441 machine with a small cylinder arm having around 9 inch work surface using the 794 needles. The actual work surface maybe less it depends on whether it is measured from the end of the cylinder arm or the needle to the body of the machine. Having such a short work area may pose a problem with some items. A machine with a 16.5 inch cylinder arm would be more versatile. I think this model was replaced by their 3200 model costing around $2600 new. With other machines like the Cobra and Cowboy there are narrow needle plates, presser feet and feed dogs available to allow those class 441 machines to sew thinner items, closer to the edge, use lighter thread thread then the regular / standard ones will allow. I don't know if they will fit the Artisan machines. It is hard to determine whether this is a good deal without photo's it will depend on things like working condition, visible wear on places like the thread guides and your local area and maintenance. Buying a used machine is just like buying a used car. Two machines of the same age, one used in a commercial setting that was bet to death versus one used by a hobbyist will command different prices. I wouldn't go 65 percent the cost of a new machine, maybe 50 percent if it was in really nice shape. Just my thoughts, kgg Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Leather2 Report post Posted April 8, 2023 2 minutes ago, kgg said: This is a class 441 machine with a small cylinder arm having around 9 inch work surface using the 794 needles. The actual work surface maybe less it depends on whether it is measured from the end of the cylinder arm or the needle to the body of the machine. Having such a short work area may pose a problem with some items. A machine with a 16.5 inch cylinder arm would be more versatile. I think this model was replaced by their 3200 model costing around $2600 new. With other machines like the Cobra and Cowboy there are narrow needle plates, presser feet and feed dogs available to allow those class 441 machines to sew thinner items, closer to the edge, use lighter thread thread then the regular / standard ones will allow. I don't know if they will fit the Artisan machines. It is hard to determine whether this is a good deal without photo's it will depend on things like working condition, visible wear on places like the thread guides and your local area and maintenance. Buying a used machine is just like buying a used car. Two machines of the same age, one used in a commercial setting that was bet to death versus one used by a hobbyist will command different prices. I wouldn't go 65 percent the cost of a new machine, maybe 50 percent if it was in really nice shape. Just my thoughts, kgg Here is the link. https://www.westernstarleather.com/ARTISAN-TORO-3000-SEWING-MACHINE-art3000_p_2011.html the owners retired last December. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Leather2 Report post Posted April 8, 2023 What do you think would be a good price for the machine, just based off pictures? i know you mentioned a lot of variables, but was wondering if it you could mention a price JUST based on pictures. Thanks Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wizcrafts Report post Posted April 8, 2023 1 hour ago, Leather2 said: What do you think would be a good price for the machine, just based off pictures? i know you mentioned a lot of variables, but was wondering if it you could mention a price JUST based on pictures. Thanks Yes, if it is in good sewing condition. The machine head looks good in the photos. If there is any way you can go to their location, ask for a demo of the machine sewing a stack of leather. It looks like you'll be getting lots of needles and accessories. I noticed that the rubber pads are missing from the foot pedals. That's a minus as your foot could slip and ruin a project if the pedal has oil dripping on it. It might be a good starter machine and may be a good investment. But, I would only offer $1400 to $1500, which is more than half the list price of that machine, as listed on the Artisan website. If you outgrow the short arm, you can probably sell it for what you paid for it and buy a Cowboy CB4500, like I have. It has a 16.5" arm and I know I wouldn't want to sew gun belts with bullet loops, or sew large holsters, or do saddle repairs on a 9 inch arm version. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kgg Report post Posted April 8, 2023 6 hours ago, Leather2 said: What do you think would be a good price for the machine, just based off pictures? 4 hours ago, Wizcrafts said: But, I would only offer $1400 to $1500, The machine looks in decent condition. If it is in good working condition my max would be $1300. So you now have a price range of range, $1300 (me) to $1500 (Wiz). If possible like Wiz said do a demo and take along an item what you figure would be the largest lengthwise that you figure you would be sewing. That way you would be able to judge if the machine has enough throat space for what you want to sew. Also here is a link to the Artisan Toro 3000 brochure: https://artisansew.com/pdf/specs/TORO_3000.pdf kgg Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Leather2 Report post Posted April 8, 2023 Thank you wiz and kgg i am going to have a showing of their entire shop today! i will keep you guys updated as to whether I get the machine or not. Thanks for all your feedback, it is sooo helpful to be able to have you share your knowledge and thoughts! thank you again Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kgg Report post Posted April 8, 2023 1 hour ago, Leather2 said: i will keep you guys updated as to whether I get the machine or not. Just be honest with yourself and how it will fit into your needs / wants. The machine maybe in excellent working condition but not fit your needs so the better decision would be to walk away. Check the machine for: i) thread grooves wore into the thread guides to help determine the amount of use the machine has had ii) amount of thread lint buildup on tension discs and in the shuttle race to help determine the amount of care or lack of. iii) any side movement of the needle bar and any needle strikes on the needle plate iv) abnormal sounds (banging / clunking / scraping) when machine is sewing at both slow speed and the machines max rated speed. v) the machine reverses into the same holes that were made during normal forward sewing vi) take a tape measure and measure the distance from the needle to the closest part of the body to determine if that throat space is going to be enough for sewing your items kgg Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Leather2 Report post Posted April 9, 2023 I ended up getting the machine for 1500. The gentleman included a stitch guide, a new motor he had as a backup, a new belt, lots of bobbins and bobbin assemblies and thread. machine works beautifully! thanks for all your help!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SoMoKraftworks Report post Posted June 28 How has this machine worked out for you. I have a chance to buy one for 1200 that has seen very little use. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
purplefox66 Report post Posted June 28 You better grab it at that price Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Leather2 Report post Posted June 29 21 hours ago, SoMoKraftworks said: How has this machine worked out for you. I have a chance to buy one for 1200 that has seen very little use. The machine has worked excellent. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
