Sewing machine suggestions

[AlZilla]

Congratulations on the new machine!  I'm not sure if you're saying the belt slips in the pulley, or if the pulley turns and nothing else does.

A - If the belt is slipping - yep, you know. Tighten it.

B - More likely, you're saying the latter. If that's the case, I don't know anything about that machine, but I'd be looking for a safety clutch somewhere that needs a good smacking.

I'd agree, it has to be a simple thing.

[EDIT] Hang on - You said "...pulley stops and the belt spins". Seems like the belt has to be loose, doesn't it?

[EDIT AGAIN] Round 3 - will it hand wheel through full revolutions??  If not, I'd be looking for something binding up in the bobbin area.  Maybe something shook loose during transport.

Edited April 19, 2023 by AlZilla

[Spicytacoman]

13 minutes ago, AlZilla said:

Congratulations on the new machine!  I'm not sure if you're saying the belt slips in the pulley, or if the pulley turns and nothing else does.

A - If the belt is slipping - yep, you know. Tighten it.

B - More likely, you're saying the latter. If that's the case, I don't know anything about that machine, but I'd be looking for a safety clutch somewhere that needs a good smacking.

I'd agree, it has to be a simple thing.

The belt slips inside of the pulley, as in it isn't turning the pulley but the belt spins.

As far as tightening the belt,I dont see any tensioners for it to tighten.

[MtlBiker]

5 minutes ago, Spicytacoman said:

The belt slips inside of the pulley, as in it isn't turning the pulley but the belt spins.

As far as tightening the belt,I dont see any tensioners for it to tighten.

The motor mount should be on curved slotted supports.  Loosen the screws just enough so that you can move the motor and push/pull the motor until you have more tension on the belt.  Probably the screws weren't tight enough and they moved during transport.

And congrats on the machine!  I hope it serves you well.

 

[Wizcrafts]

Post a photo showing the motor and floor pedal. Every motor I've seen on an industrial sewing table has a bolt adjustment for raising or lowering the motor in its mount. There are usually locking nuts over and under the bracket the bolt feeds through. Set the motor so there is about 1/2 to 3/4 inch deflection of the v-belt when the machine is upright in its operating position.

Do try turning the hand wheel before tightening the belt. If it's hard to turn without the belt, something has gotten jammed up inside the machine. It could simply be a thread birds nest from not pulling the top thread out of the needle and the needle went down from the machine being moved around. If this happened, you'll have to pull all the thread out of the shuttle around the bobbin case before you try powering on the machine again.

This birds nesting is caused by not holding onto the starting threads, especially the top needle thread. Industrial machines are fairly easy to jam up if the top thread gets pulled down and into the shuttle in the wrong manner. When moving or even tilting the head, pull the top thread out of the needle so it can't get jammed into the shuttle and bobbin case.

[Spicytacoman]

28 minutes ago, Wizcrafts said:

Post a photo showing the motor and floor pedal. Every motor I've seen on an industrial sewing table has a bolt adjustment for raising or lowering the motor in its mount. There are usually locking nuts over and under the bracket the bolt feeds through. Set the motor so there is about 1/2 to 3/4 inch deflection of the v-belt when the machine is upright in its operating position.

Do try turning the hand wheel before tightening the belt. If it's hard to turn without the belt, something has gotten jammed up inside the machine. It could simply be a thread birds nest from not pulling the top thread out of the needle and the needle went down from the machine being moved around. If this happened, you'll have to pull all the thread out of the shuttle around the bobbin case before you try powering on the machine again.

This birds nesting is caused by not holding onto the starting threads, especially the top needle thread. Industrial machines are fairly easy to jam up if the top thread gets pulled down and into the shuttle in the wrong manner. When moving or even tilting the head, pull the top thread out of the needle so it can't get jammed into the shuttle and bobbin case.

So the thing is I dropped it downward more to put more pressure and that seemed to help the situation. Have thread tension issues im working through now with looping under the bottom so im slowly tightening it until the looping stops. I think im almost set to start sewing! 

[AlZilla]

14 minutes ago, Spicytacoman said:

So the thing is I dropped it downward more to put more pressure and that seemed to help the situation. Have thread tension issues im working through now with looping under the bottom so im slowly tightening it until the looping stops. I think im almost set to start sewing! 

Funny that it was sewing before you moved it and now you have looping.

Are you using the same thread, thread size, needle size, etc as when you tested it? Sewing the same material and thickness you tested?

 

[Spicytacoman]

7 minutes ago, AlZilla said:

Funny that it was sewing before you moved it and now you have looping.

Are you using the same thread, thread size, needle size, etc as when you tested it? Sewing the same material and thickness you tested?

 

Lol right!?

Now my thread is slightly thicket than the one he used but barely. Im using #138 not sure the one he had but it is a tiny bit thinner.

But the amount I had to lower those nuts to keep that belt from slipping was like 3/4 of an in which I thought was excessive but what do I know.. lol

[Spicytacoman]

Sorry wiz! I forgot you wanted to see the foot pedal too! 

[MtlBiker]

6 minutes ago, Spicytacoman said:

Lol right!?

Now my thread is slightly thicket than the one he used but barely. Im using #138 not sure the one he had but it is a tiny bit thinner.

But the amount I had to lower those nuts to keep that belt from slipping was like 3/4 of an in which I thought was excessive but what do I know.. lol

You've got a big learning curve ahead of you!  And I see you well on your way to being thankful you got a machine with safety clutch.  It's far too easy to forget to hold the thread back when you start to stitch and way too easy to get a thread jam on the under side or worse, in and around the bobbin.  And adjusting thread tension is a skill that some of us (pointing at myself here) had a hard time developing.  Changing brands of thread, thread sizes, and yes, even color often means that thread tension needs to be readjusted.  Do you know what the drop test is for bobbin tension?  You will also find that if you have proper thread tension with a white thread (of any size) and you then switch to the same size/brand with a black thread, you will usually need to readjust tension.  You'll do that by eye and by feel, which as I said, is a skill that needs to be learned.

Is v138 the thread size you plan to use most of the time?  And what needle are you using with it?  And what are you sewing?  Meaning do you use a 135x16 or 135x17 needle in the correct size?  All that has to be learned.  School of hard knocks coming right up!

 

[Spicytacoman]

1 hour ago, MtlBiker said:

You've got a big learning curve ahead of you!  And I see you well on your way to being thankful you got a machine with safety clutch.  It's far too easy to forget to hold the thread back when you start to stitch and way too easy to get a thread jam on the under side or worse, in and around the bobbin.  And adjusting thread tension is a skill that some of us (pointing at myself here) had a hard time developing.  Changing brands of thread, thread sizes, and yes, even color often means that thread tension needs to be readjusted.  Do you know what the drop test is for bobbin tension?  You will also find that if you have proper thread tension with a white thread (of any size) and you then switch to the same size/brand with a black thread, you will usually need to readjust tension.  You'll do that by eye and by feel, which as I said, is a skill that needs to be learned.

Is v138 the thread size you plan to use most of the time?  And what needle are you using with it?  And what are you sewing?  Meaning do you use a 135x16 or 135x17 needle in the correct size?  All that has to be learned.  School of hard knocks coming right up!

 

I think that is the main thread size I will use, im currently working for the last 2 hours of my shift but this is what I found in the packaging. Not sure if this is what is currently on the machine at the moment however.

That needle should work well for leqther and #138 right?

Edited April 20, 2023 by Spicytacoman

[AlZilla]

That should be the one.  Here's a helpful chart:

https://tolindsewmach.com/thread-chart.html

[MtlBiker]

50 minutes ago, Spicytacoman said:

I think that is the main thread size I will use, im currently working for the last 2 hours of my shift but this is what I found in the packaging. Not sure if this is what is currently on the machine at the moment however.

That needle should work well for leqther and #138 right?

That's not a leather needle.  You need a 135x16 (DPx16) for leather.  The 140 (size 22) should be about right for your 138 thread.

[Spicytacoman]

40 minutes ago, MtlBiker said:

That's not a leather needle.  You need a 135x16 (DPx16) for leather.  The 140 (size 22) should be about right for your 138 thread.

Where can I find information on needle sizes and what they are used for? I know wiz has had to have made a guide somewhere! I couldn't find anything on Google.

What brand for industrial needles do  you all recommend for these new needles? I had no idea..

I tried looking up 140 / 22 dp x16  and can't find some. Im seeing 135?

Edited April 20, 2023 by Spicytacoman

[Spicytacoman]

6 hours ago, AlZilla said:

Congratulations on the new machine!  I'm not sure if you're saying the belt slips in the pulley, or if the pulley turns and nothing else does.

A - If the belt is slipping - yep, you know. Tighten it.

B - More likely, you're saying the latter. If that's the case, I don't know anything about that machine, but I'd be looking for a safety clutch somewhere that needs a good smacking.

I'd agree, it has to be a simple thing.

[EDIT] Hang on - You said "...pulley stops and the belt spins". Seems like the belt has to be loose, doesn't it?

[EDIT AGAIN] Round 3 - will it hand wheel through full revolutions??  If not, I'd be looking for something binding up in the bobbin area.  Maybe something shook loose during transport.

It handcrank sews fine. To be honest, I believe it has to do with the needle. When there is no material under the needle, it runs just fine. I guess it is the needle. Handcranking it with the material is doable however I do feel resistance.

I guess since the original thread was thinner and the sellers house it was easier to run when I first tried it before transporting?

Edited April 20, 2023 by Spicytacoman

[AlZilla]

Try sewing cloth. Maybe jamming the wrong needle in there is causing the thread to stay when the tension arm is trying to pull it up, causing your looping.

I get screwed up on needles.  I have a machine that uses TYPE 16 needles and 2 that use the same 135x16 as your machine.  

Picking the right machine was just warm up for the real challenge - getting the right needle!

[Wizcrafts]

5 hours ago, Spicytacoman said:

Sorry wiz! I forgot you wanted to see the foot pedal too!

Make sure that the floor pedal isn't bottoming out hard against the floor in the idle position. The two rods with the coupler are used to adjust the idle position. Set it so there is a little gap above the floor in the off position.

I have the same motor on my Singer 211G156 walking foot machine, and on my Techsew 2700. I like the rotary switch to set the top speed.

[Wizcrafts]

2 hours ago, Spicytacoman said:

Where can I find information on needle sizes and what they are used for? I know wiz has had to have made a guide somewhere! I couldn't find anything on Google.

The best needle and thread combination chart is on the Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines website.

[Spicytacoman]

1 hour ago, Wizcrafts said:

Make sure that the floor pedal isn't bottoming out hard against the floor in the idle position. The two rods with the coupler are used to adjust the idle position. Set it so there is a little gap above the floor in the off position.

I have the same motor on my Singer 211G156 walking foot machine, and on my Techsew 2700. I like the rotary switch to set the top speed.

Really? So not like a gas pedal position? Figured it would be easier to adjust pressure this way. So you mean to have it as flat as possible?

[Wizcrafts]

26 minutes ago, Spicytacoman said:

Really? So not like a gas pedal position? Figured it would be easier to adjust pressure this way. So you mean to have it as flat as possible?

No, that's not what I meant. It looked to me like the front edge of the pedal is hard in contact with the floor. It needs to miss the floor in the off/idle position. Forget I ever mentioned it. It's an optical illusion. Set the angle where your ankle is comfortable. Just make sure it is adjusted so it lets the motor be completely off when the front is all the way down. If the leading edge actually hits the floor, the motor will be partially engaged when you want it off. That's what I was talking about. It should have the back end up so you don't stress your ankle.

[MtlBiker]

11 hours ago, Spicytacoman said:

Where can I find information on needle sizes and what they are used for? I know wiz has had to have made a guide somewhere! I couldn't find anything on Google.

What brand for industrial needles do  you all recommend for these new needles? I had no idea..

I tried looking up 140 / 22 dp x16  and can't find some. Im seeing 135?

You've been given a great link about needle sizes.  What you should know that your "DPx17" is exactly what "135x17" is.  Just a different way to express the same thing.  That refers to the TYPE of needle used in your machine.  Also the "140" is just another way (Metric) to say size "22" (US). 

So, you need a 135x16 needle (in the right size) for leather and a 135x17 needle for everything else.  And in either of those, you need a #22 size (140) for your 138 thread.

A great source for buying needles and other sewing things is Wawak.  Especially when they have their sales (often!). 

As far as needle brands go, many folks have their favorites but I think that Schmetz, Organ, Groz-Beckert are all good.   Needles are cheap (especially from Wawak when on sale) and you should probably buy some size 22, 21 and maybe 23 and other sizes if you will use other than 138 thread.  And you should get the leather needles (135x16) if you're sewing leather.  And realize that needles need to be replaced often.  Depending on how much you're sewing, maybe as often as every day.  Or every 8 hours of sewing.  Or when the thread starts to fray when going through the eye of the needle.

Thread is another thing... I strongly suggest you stick with well-known brands and stay away from the cheap stuff.  And go for the large spools (one pound) rather than the smaller ones to minimize the "curl" effect.

Hope this helps.

Good luck!
 

Edited April 20, 2023 by MtlBiker

[Spicytacoman]

1 hour ago, MtlBiker said:

You've been given a great link about needle sizes.  What you should know that your "DPx17" is exactly what "135x17" is.  Just a different way to express the same thing.  That refers to the TYPE of needle used in your machine.  Also the "140" is just another way (Metric) to say size "22" (US). 

So, you need a 135x16 needle (in the right size) for leather and a 135x17 needle for everything else.  And in either of those, you need a #22 size (140) for your 138 thread.

A great source for buying needles and other sewing things is Wawak.  Especially when they have their sales (often!). 

As far as needle brands go, many folks have their favorites but I think that Schmetz, Organ, Groz-Beckert are all good.   Needles are cheap (especially from Wawak when on sale) and you should probably buy some size 22, 21 and maybe 23 and other sizes if you will use other than 138 thread.  And you should get the leather needles (135x16) if you're sewing leather.  And realize that needles need to be replaced often.  Depending on how much you're sewing, maybe as often as every day.  Or every 8 hours of sewing.  Or when the thread starts to fray when going through the eye of the needle.

Thread is another thing... I strongly suggest you stick with well-known brands and stay away from the cheap stuff.  And go for the large spools (one pound) rather than the smaller ones to minimize the "curl" effect.

Hope this helps.

Good luck!
 

Everything you guys say helps! 

 

Im starting to stress out man... I've had this thing for one day, started sewng well at the sellers place. Brought it home, and as you know, the belt started slipping.. I adjusted the angle of the motor to put more pressure on the pulley that worked however, stepping back and looking at the the situation now I think the situation was something else.

 

Started sewing this morning and started getting the thread caught in the bobbin casing more and more often. Pulled the bobbin out and removed the thread that was caught after each catch. Popped the bobbin case back in and now the top thread will not pick up the bobbin thread.

Handcranking the pulley has tension now without any material under the foot as soon as the needle starts reaches this position on the down stroke and feels like it is getting caught but the needle isn't even through the hole yet... my joy is slipping fast haha. Been trying to figure this out for about 3 hours and reading for an answer online.. 

Edited April 20, 2023 by Spicytacoman

[MtlBiker]

1 hour ago, Spicytacoman said:

Everything you guys say helps!

Im starting to stress out man... I've had this thing for one day, started sewng well at the sellers place. Brought it home, and as you know, the belt started slipping.. I adjusted the angle of the motor to put more pressure on the pulley that worked however, stepping back and looking at the the situation now I think the situation was something else.

Started sewing this morning and started getting the thread caught in the bobbin casing more and more often. Pulled the bobbin out and removed the thread that was caught after each catch. Popped the bobbin case back in and now the top thread will not pick up the bobbin thread.

Handcranking the pulley has tension now without any material under the foot as soon as the needle starts reaches this position on the down stroke and feels like it is getting caught but the needle isn't even through the hole yet... my joy is slipping fast haha. Been trying to figure this out for about 3 hours and reading for an answer online..

I don't know where to start.  Is your needle inserted correctly?  The long groove has to be at the left, and it's got to be perpendicular to the stitch line.  I'd also like to see how the machine is threaded, from the spool right down to the needle.  Didn't the seller spend any time with you showing you the basics?  Also, just in case, you must never turn the handwheel clockwise!  Only counter-clockwise, meaning turn the top of the wheel towards you.  I suspect you at some point in your frustration turned the wheel the other way.

I asked in an earlier message but you never answered... Do you know what the drop test is with a bobbin?  I also would like to see how you have the thread spool inserted into the bobbin.  And you MUST hold the thread ends in your fingers as you start sewing.  Too easy to forget that (until it's a habit) and then get a thread jam.  And are you sure the bobbin is fully inserted?  It's got a little click when it finally is seated well.

At this point I'd suggest you remove the thread and needle and see if you can hand crank the machine smoothly.  Let us know and we'll proceed from there.

 

[Spicytacoman]

42 minutes ago, MtlBiker said:

I don't know where to start.  Is your needle inserted correctly?  The long groove has to be at the left, and it's got to be perpendicular to the stitch line.  I'd also like to see how the machine is threaded, from the spool right down to the needle.  Didn't the seller spend any time with you showing you the basics?  Also, just in case, you must never turn the handwheel clockwise!  Only counter-clockwise, meaning turn the top of the wheel towards you.  I suspect you at some point in your frustration turned the wheel the other way.

I asked in an earlier message but you never answered... Do you know what the drop test is with a bobbin?  I also would like to see how you have the thread spool inserted into the bobbin.  And you MUST hold the thread ends in your fingers as you start sewing.  Too easy to forget that (until it's a habit) and then get a thread jam.  And are you sure the bobbin is fully inserted?  It's got a little click when it finally is seated well.

At this point I'd suggest you remove the thread and needle and see if you can hand crank the machine smoothly.  Let us know and we'll proceed from there.

 

Long groove is on the the left perpendicular to the outer machine side. That is correct, needle is fully inserted and fully tightened. Thread is pathing from the left of the whole to the right.

There was an issue where the lifter foot screw was loose and was clipping with the walking foot. I adjusted that so they no longer touch and are straight. 

The seller showed me how to thread it and I've kept it the same. That was pretty much it. The only time I spin it clockwise is if I felt it locking to back it out / release the thread to pull out.

I have no idea what a drop test for yhe bobbin means.. im using the original ones that come with the 206rb5. I made sure the thread unwinds counterclockwise and followed the path in the case to get to the little eyelet.

 

As for holding the thread before sewing, I have! I will handcrank the first 2 stitches while holding them back before using the motor.

 

Inserting the bobbin i do get the click! Yup I certainly did.

 

After fixing the lifter foot issue it is a bit easier. When the presser foot is up it handcranks with no tension at all. As soon as I put the presser foot down, and the walking foot meets the feed dogs, i believe when the lifter foot needs to start moving up is when it gets tight and has resistance to turn the crank. Not sure if that is normall?

 

It isn't allowing me to add multiple pictures..

Edited April 20, 2023 by Spicytacoman
New understanding of issue

[Wizcrafts]

Thread getting jammed in the hook is user error cured by holding back the starting thread. I would suggest holding back the starting threads for at least three stitches before letting go. Make sure that the top thread feeds through the hole or split in the inside foot and is pulled to the rear. . 

If the machine sewed perfectly at the previous location, everything that has gone wrong is simply new user - rookie mistakes we all made along the way.

Place a drop of oil on inside the race where the shuttle revolves. In fact, put a few drops of sewing machine oil in every oil hole and on each moving part. Keep a cloth handy to wipe the drippings.

[AlZilla]

Here's an older thread by rookie 206 users with similar problems. Maybe something in there will help:

 

https://leatherworker.net/forum/topic/75812-consew-206rb-5-jam/