FNG Seeking to clarify mixed messages...

[Ripper70]

Hello All,

Long time lurker, first time poster. I've just acquired a Cobra Class 26 machine and will, for the first time ever, be using a sewing machine of any kind. I'd like to try out a variety of needles and threads to get an idea of which would best suit my needs. I make wallets and belts and have several bag designs I'm planning on as well. I've only ever hand stitched using Tiger 0.8mm and 1.0mm thread so I'd like to test my designs using the maximum weight thread my new machine will accommodate. According to the Leather Machine Co. website, the Class 26 uses the 135x16 needle system in sizes #12 - #25 and can use threads from #46 - #207. My question is, if the Class 26 machine can use a #25 needle and a #25 needle can accommodate a #277 thread size, wouldn't that suggest that he maximum thread size the Class 26 can use is #277 and that it's not limited to #207 weight?

Also, where is the best source to get threads and leather needles? I've read about twist point needles and would really like to give them a try but I can't seem to find a supplier that has them in  sizes larger than #19. The few places that I've checked have some of the thread I'd like to try or a few of the needles I'd like to test but I haven't found any comprehensive supplier that has all or most of what I want. The Thread Exchange and Wawak have a nice variety and reasonable prices but are there other/better suggestions that members here have discovered?

Thanks in advance for any assistance and thanks for providing this terrific forum.

Ripper70

[Wizcrafts]

The hook, shuttle, take-up system and tensioners are not built to properly tension #277 thread. It will get dragged down into the hook and jam the machine.

That's the official stance. Now, you might try running a soft #277 on top, but no more than a soft 207 in the bobbin, using a #25 diamond point needle. You'll have to crank down the presser foot spring a lot to keep the leather from lifting as the needle ascends. Set the stitch length to about 6 to the inch. Increase the top tension and reduce the bobbin tension.Sew into 1/4 inch of leather that has been oiled to soften it and see if you can balance the top and bottom threads. Hold back the starting threads, hand crank the machine and see what happens! Let us know.

[Ripper70]

Thank you, Wiz. I think I'll test your suggestions when I have some more experience under my belt. Having to dial in the machine settings with that kind of precision may be above my pay grade at the moment. At least you've helped me understand the conflicting info I was reading about needle/thread combinations and the Class 26 capacity. And, if the #207 thread is the heaviest that the machine is designed to handle, I'll stick with the manufacturer's recommendation until I have more confidence in my abilities.

I did find a resource that seems to have a great selection of needles called Diamond Needle Corp. out of New Jersey. However, their offerings are limited to boxes of 100 needles and only Organ Brand are sold. How would you rate Organ vs. Schmetz or Groz-Beckert? Do you have a preference? And is there a supplier that you could recommend that offers smaller quantities rather than having to buy 100 needles at a time? Like I mentioned, I'm still in the testing phase and would rather avoid spending money on accessories that won't be put to good use.

[MtlBiker]

@Ripper70 - A great source for needles, especially when they go on sale (often) is Wawak.  Get on their mailing list and almost every week they alert you about specials.

[Ripper70]

2 minutes ago, MtlBiker said:

@Ripper70 - A great source for needles, especially when they go on sale (often) is Wawak.  Get on their mailing list and almost every week they alert you about specials.

I've already set up an account at Wawak. However, they seem to be limited to just two options for needles in system 135x16 and only size #18. They do have a wide variety of categories but a limited range of items.

[Wizcrafts]

23 minutes ago, Ripper70 said:

How would you rate Organ vs. Schmetz or Groz-Beckert? Do you have a preference? And is there a supplier that you could recommend that offers smaller quantities rather than having to buy 100 needles at a time?

I use all three brands. I have multiple sewing machines that all use System 135x16 and 135x17 needles. One of my main suppliers is @CowboyBobKovar, owner of Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines. He sold me some Schmetz S point needles in System 134-35 that lay down an inline stitchline. I like them. They are ever so slightly shorter than the standard walking foot needles, but still work for me.

If at all possible, try to buy titanium coated needles. The ones I have are from Organ and Gross Beckert. These needles go through leather tape and glue with fewer clogging issues.

Interestingly, when it comes to round points, I have some Schmetz that have a special geometry in the eye that resists clogging even though it is just plain steel. I use them to sew embroidered patches onto Bikers' vests. Why? On account of leather point needles slice the thread along the edges, where the round pints just separate the threads and don't rat the edges.

You can buy individual packs of System 135x16 and 135x17 on eBay.

[Ripper70]

4 minutes ago, Wizcrafts said:

You can buy individual packs of System 135x16 and 135x17 on eBay.

eBay! Now why didn't I think of that? Thank you!

Quote

Interestingly, when it comes to round points, I have some Schmetz that have a special geometry in the eye that resists clogging even though it is just plain steel. I use them to sew embroidered patches onto Bikers' vests. 

That is some very useful information. I have clients that have requested leather patches sewn on trucker hats and think this might be something useful to have on-hand. Can you be more specific as to the description. I'm assuming they're 135x17's like these?

[MtlBiker]

1 hour ago, Ripper70 said:

I've already set up an account at Wawak. However, they seem to be limited to just two options for needles in system 135x16 and only size #18. They do have a wide variety of categories but a limited range of items.

I don't know how you're searching, but I buy all sizes of both 135x17 and 135x16 needles from Wawak.  Go take another look.

Even all three needles in your link show multiple size options.

 

Edited April 22, 2023 by MtlBiker

[Wizcrafts]

1 hour ago, Ripper70 said:

eBay! Now why didn't I think of that? Thank you!

That is some very useful information. I have clients that have requested leather patches sewn on trucker hats and think this might be something useful to have on-hand. Can you be more specific as to the description. I'm assuming they're 135x17's like these?

I looked at a package of these big eye 135x17 needles and they are Schmetz SERV7. I bought them in sizes 18 and 19. The largest I found listed is only a #22, which is good for #138 bonded thread. I sew through leather tape with them and they don't clog or rat the thread like a standard 135x17.

[Ripper70]

27 minutes ago, MtlBiker said:

I don't know how you're searching, but I buy all sizes of both 135x17 and 135x16 needles from Wawak.  Go take another look.

Even all three needles in your link show multiple size options.

 

Sorry. I stand corrected. I saw the photo in the listing but didn't notice the size options. Thanks for the heads up.

[eblanche]

I've ordered from https://www.thethreadexchange.com/ several times and they are quick and reasonable if they end up having the needles you need. May be worth inquiring if they can get the sizes/points you are looking for.

Edited April 22, 2023 by eblanche

[BruceGibson]

Welcome aboard! 

[Wyowally]

I commend you for your approach and attitude about learning. I'm sure you will progress quickly. The advice you get from the regulars here is spot on! I know from my own experience. You found the right place - I see so much misinformation and bad advice in some of the FB groups that I just shake my head, now that even I know better.

[Ripper70]

23 hours ago, eblanche said:

I've ordered from https://www.thethreadexchange.com/ several times and they are quick and reasonable if they end up having the needles you need. May be worth inquiring if they can get the sizes/points you are looking for.

Yes. I just ordered a variety of bonded 207 thread in all the primary and secondary colors from The Thread Exchange. I liked the fact that they sell the small 500 yd. spools so I can try them out without breaking the bank. They didn't have the size #24 needles I wanted so I managed to get an assortment of styles on eBay which turns out to be a pretty good resource. Picked up a box of 25 M-Style bobbins for $18 bucks as well. Just hope they're not so poorly made that they don't work. We shall see.

 

20 hours ago, BruceGibson said:

Welcome aboard! 

Thanks, Bruce. Checked out your website. Beautiful looking knives you're making. 

 

2 hours ago, Wyowally said:

I commend you for your approach and attitude about learning. I'm sure you will progress quickly. The advice you get from the regulars here is spot on! I know from my own experience. You found the right place - I see so much misinformation and bad advice in some of the FB groups that I just shake my head, now that even I know better.

Thanks, Wyowally. I agree that the quality of crafters and wealth of knowledge here on LW's is very impressive. I've been using this place a reference for a while.