John James Saddlers Harness Needles Sizes

[Hazza]

I have just opened unopened old stock packs of size 1, size 2 and size 3 - and they are all the same - identical.
I checked with John James and got this helpful reply...

"

There is no difference at all in the needles, the coding comes down too many years ago different countries ordering & knowing them as different codes, example America know it as a size 3 & generally order L3912 003.

"

Just a "heads up" to not buy "the whole set" of saddlers needles.

https://www.jjneedles.com/buy-needles/bulk-loose-needles/saddlers-harness-needles-1.html#size-guide

[TomE]

@Hazza I was curious and checked what I had on hand.  The John James needles on the left are sizes 1/0, 003, and 004.  The 004 is smaller, and the other 2 are the same diameter and slightly different lengths.  On the right are Osborne needles in 18, 19, and 20 gauge.  I use the 19 gauge needle with #207 bonded nylon thread, and the 18 gauge needle for #277 thread.  I've bent them using pliers when overstitching in thick leather, but I've never had one break.  Very happy with the Osborne needles.

[Hazza]

@TomE
The sizes you quote are all different...
From John James website

25 Saddlers Harness needles in paper envelope. 

Size 1 54mm length x 1.02mm diameter
Size 2 54mm length x 1.02mm diameter
Size 3 54mm length x 1.02mm diameter
Size 4 48mm length x 0.86mm diameter
Size 18 (1/0) 57.5mm length x 1.09mm diameter
Size 17 (2/0) 59.5mm length x 1.42mm diameter
Size 16 (3/0) 61.5mm length x 1.63mm diameter

[TomE]

That makes sense.  Couldn't see the difference between 1.02mm and 1.09mm diameter.  I'll need to make a smaller awl for that #4 needle and #92 thread, and maybe pick up a new set of eyeglasses.

[Tugadude]

Weaver's website has this helpful picture, wish it had the corresponding measurements though.  It at least gives some idea of how the various sizes correspond to one another.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 24, 2023 by Tugadude

[Tugadude]

Rocky Mountain Leather Supply has a handy bit of info:

Size	Diameter	Tiger Thread Match	Corded Thread Match (Polybraid, Masterfil, Other Round Thread)
Size 4 (004)	0.9mm	0.6mm & under	0.2-0.4mm
Size 2 (002)	1.0mm	0.8mm & under	0.4-0.5mm
Size 0 (1/0)	1.1mm	1.0mm & under	0.5-0.6mm
Size 00 (2/0)	1.3mm	1.2mm & under	0.6-0.8mm
Size 000 (3/0)	1.6mm	1.6mm & under	0.8-1.0+mm

[Tugadude]

And...some more verbiage, explaining?, the rationale behind three sizes being identical yet bearing different ID numbers.

"Sizes:

Size 1 (001) - 55mm length x 1.02mm diameter;

Size 2 (002) - 55mm length x 1.02mm diameter;

Size 3 (003) - 55mm length x 1.02mm diameter.

P.S. L3912 Saddlers Harness Needles size 001, size 002 and size 003 are all identical needles, this means they have the same length and the same diameter. Some customers prefer the needle length and diameter to be called a size 001, others prefer it to be called a size 002 or a size 003 and this is why the product is given 3 sizes but in reality they are all the same.  (taken from this page:  https://craftntools.com/products/john-james-saddlers-harness-needles-blunt-7373/)

 

Size 4 - 50mm length x 0.86mm diameter;

Size (1/0) - 57mm length x 1.09mm diameter;

Size (2/0) - 60mm length x 1.42mm diameter;

Size (3/0) - 62mm length x 1.63mm diameter."

[Hazza]

2 hours ago, Tugadude said:

...

P.S. L3912 Saddlers Harness Needles size 001, size 002 and size 003 are all identical needles, this means they have the same length and the same diameter. Some customers prefer the needle length and diameter to be called a size 001, others prefer it to be called a size 002 or a size 003 and this is why the product is given 3 sizes but in reality they are all the same.  (taken from this page:  https://craftntools.com/products/john-james-saddlers-harness-needles-blunt-7373/) ...

 

I love that the rationale for the 001 / 002 / 003 is that some people wanted it called different things... that is NOT rational