Adler K268 thicker thread

[Kristian]

Hi. I have an Adler K268 post bed sewing machine which I have used to sew shoe uppers with (110 needle and #69 thread). I want to be able to sew a bit heavier stuff as well (decorational belt stitches and structural bag stitches), therefore I have bought 140 needles and #207 thread. My problem is that it wont stitch. With 69 thread on the bobbin it just makes a big mess. With 207 thread on the bobbin, the hook won’t pick up the thread.  Maybe I need to move the bobbin housing to the right ever so slightly? In that case, how do I do this? Appreciate any advice on how to make this work. 

[Wizcrafts]

Your needle is too small for #207 thread! A #22/140 needle is minimum size for #138 thread. You'll need to move up to a #23 or 24 needle.

If the hook hits a larger needle, you will have to move the right side of the split post away from the needle and feed dog. To do this, loosen two huge bolts under the machine that secure the right side of the post and nudge the right side of the split post to the right, leaving the feed dog side in place. Set it so the hook just misses the needle, then lock down the bolts. This changes the timing. It also makes it more likely it will skip stitches with a #18 needle and #69 thread.

Be aware that moving the posts apart might allow the tab on the bobbin case to slip out of its detente under the needle plate, and spin freely. This would be a bad thing if it happens.

[Kristian]

Thanks @Wizcrafts! I will try with 160 needle and see how that works. 

[kgg]

7 hours ago, Kristian said:

I want to be able to sew a bit heavier stuff as well (decorational belt stitches and structural bag stitches), therefore I have bought 140 needles and #207 thread.

Have you check your manual for your machines sub class. The information I have the max size needle thus the max thread depends on the sub class. The max needle the machine is rated for is 180 (#24) but mostly 140 (#23) or under. The 180 needle will be able to handle V207 in thinner thickness but you may have to go up to a 200 (#25) in thick or tough stuff.

A good cross reference for needle size to thread size can be had at: https://www.tolindsewmach.com/thread-chart.html

The machine information I referenced can be seen in the attached manual pages 2 & 3.

kgg

268_instructions_for_operating.pdf

[Kristian]

Thanks @kgg! I am not sure which sub class my machine is, because the sticker on the back  is partly torn off. Is the sub class given in any other way than with a sticker? I suspect my sub class is for 110-140 needles, as it was set up with 134-35 LR / size 110 needles when I bought it... Is there anyone who have managed to squeeze 160 needle and 207 thread out of such machine? Of course I would like to be able to still sew with 69 thread without other modification than replacing needle and thread...

[kgg]

3 hours ago, Kristian said:

Is there anyone who have managed to squeeze 160 needle and 207 thread out of such machine?

For a start the 160 (#23) needle is only good for V138 thread in thinner materials. If you want to use V207 you need to go to at least a 180 (#24) needle and maybe a 200 (#25) in thicker / tougher / sticky materials. If you use an underside needle like the V207 thread with a 160 needle the hole the needle punches isn't big enough to allow the top thread to form a proper loop on it's upstroke so the hook can catch it.

You may be able to use one size of needle up from the machines rating but two sizes or more probably not.

My take on thread is V69 is the largest thread for domestic sewing machines and the smallest thread size for industrial sewing machines. The V138 thread is generally the max rating for most upholstery class machines while the V207 thread seems to be the cross over point from upholstery class machines to the heavy stitchers of the 441 Class machines.

kgg

[Kristian]

Thanks for the help guys! Much appreciated. @Trox, I see you have a DA 267, and have had a 67 as well. Do you know what maximum size needle and thread I can practically push out of my DA K268, and still be able to use the 110 needle and 69 thread without using wrenches...? I am not sure which subclass, but I believe it is one that is listed with needle range NM110-140, because it has 6mm stitch length.

Edited June 5, 2023 by Kristian

[Trox]

16 hours ago, Kristian said:

Thanks for the help guys! Much appreciated. @Trox, I see you have a DA 267, and have had a 67 as well. Do you know what maximum size needle and thread I can practically push out of my DA K268, and still be able to use the 110 needle and 69 thread without using wrenches...? I am not sure which subclass, but I believe it is one that is listed with needle range NM110-140, because it has 6mm stitch length.

Hi, 

I do have a DA 267-373, great little machine. I use for upholstery and light leather w. The largest needle I have for it is a 160. But a rarely use other than 120 and 140 in it. I would say 160 is maximum. I never tried any bigger, that  wouldn't work well. (I have bigger machines for those thicker threads). Like Kgg says above, you have to check the number on its plate to see what sub class it is (the number after 268). I see there are only two machines out of 30 sub classes that uses a 180 needle and non of them are using the longer 135 -34 needle. They're using the shorter 134 needle and that tells me these two sub classes are for stitching shoe soles.  Post a pic of the number plate and check the manual. DA would always be a little conservative with the needle sizes, so you can probably go up to a 160. That's a metric 15/3 thread, I believe that's a TEX 138. Always check that the needle doesn't hit the shuttle when you try a bigger needle. The machine is adjusted to be used within these stated sizes, so there is always a risks for errors pushing it. Aka birds nest, broken needles, clutch release etc.

Tor

[Trox]

On 6/4/2023 at 6:10 PM, Kristian said:

Hi. I have an Adler K268 post bed sewing machine which I have used to sew shoe uppers with (110 needle and #69 thread). I want to be able to sew a bit heavier stuff as well (decorational belt stitches and structural bag stitches), therefore I have bought 140 needles and #207 thread. My problem is that it wont stitch. With 69 thread on the bobbin it just makes a big mess. With 207 thread on the bobbin, the hook won’t pick up the thread.  Maybe I need to move the bobbin housing to the right ever so slightly? In that case, how do I do this? Appreciate any advice on how to make this work. 

The TEX 207 is a European (TKT) 10/3 and the minimum needle size for that is a Nm180 needle. No wonder you get a mess out of that. Your maximum needle size is 160 that's a Tex 90 to 95, European sizes 15/3 who is the parameters Dürkopp Adler is using in their manuals. If you use a thick thread on top you can use one size thinner in the bobbin, not several sizes thinner. From a 69 to a 207 there are several sizes, it won't work. The thread has to pass freely true the needle eye. Read the topic " Neat Trix for Needle Sizing" pinned on the top of this forum. When I sew leather I always try to use the smallest needle possible for the thread size, for better stitch apperence. But the thread must fit the long groove in the needle and pass freely true it's eye.

Good luck!

Tor

[Kristian]

Tusen takk Tor! 
(thank you Tor!)

I have  ordered 138 Weaver thread from Skinnlåven, and 160 needle from Amatec. I’ll let you know how that works. I don’t know the sub class as the sticker on the rear side is partly torn off.. 

-Kristian

Edited June 6, 2023 by Kristian

[Trox]

3 hours ago, Kristian said:

Tusen takk Tor! 
(thank you Tor!)

I have  ordered 138 Weaver thread from Skinnlåven, and 160 needle from Amatec. I’ll let you know how that works. I don’t know the sub class as the sticker on the rear side is partly torn off.. 

-Kristian

Okay du er Norsk ja where are you located? You know the needle system and you can recognize other differences if you study the manual. Skinnlåven sells bonded nylon in USA sizes yes (not cheap though) Amatec selling Gütterman thread, C.Hemsen Oslo have Serafil polyester and are number one in leather prices. (They also have that nice French Fil au Chinois, for hand stitching) The cheapest threads are sold by T. Plassen, Aman Serafil, Coats and Gütterman. 

Let me know how that works out.

Tor

[shoepatcher]

On 6/5/2023 at 12:54 PM, Kristian said:

Thanks for the help guys! Much appreciated. @Trox, I see you have a DA 267, and have had a 67 as well. Do you know what maximum size needle and thread I can practically push out of my DA K268, and still be able to use the 110 needle and 69 thread without using wrenches...? I am not sure which subclass, but I believe it is one that is listed with needle range NM110-140, because it has 6mm stitch length.

Need to know exact model of your 268 to answer that question.

glenn

[Kristian]

I have now tested this and found 138 thread to be the thickest possible for this machine (at least with factory settings). The stitches look best with the 140 needle, although I can also use a 160 needle without the hook crashing into it. If I want stitches thicker than that, I will either do some saddle stitching, or blow the dust off my Singer 7-33 that I bought a year ago but actually have not tried yet
 

[Kristian]

Today when spooling thread onto the bobbin, I forgot to remove the thread from the needle, hence made a thread salad in the bobbin housing. I managed to remove it, but the machine wouldnt stitch afterwards. I found out that the hook timing was waaay off, probably as far off as possible. I also found out that I was able to time it back just by holding the house whilst manually cranking the wheel. This tells we that there is something wrong somewhere, and I shouldn’t stitch until something is fastened. Appreciate any help.

 

[kgg]

56 minutes ago, Kristian said:

I managed to remove it, but the machine wouldnt stitch afterwards.

If I'm not mistaken your machine has a safety clutch, has it tripped and have you reset it?

kgg

[Kristian]

I don’t know whether if has a safety clutch or not. But I found out by accident that it was possible to reset the hook timing by fixing the bobbin house by hand whilst manually turning the wheel… So I found a position on the hook vs needle that looked ok, and tried a few stitches, which went fine. If possible I would like to fasten the bobbin house a bit more…