Adler 4-10

[Jianis]

Hello again.

One more question: Is anyone familiar with the Adler 4-10 industrial sewing machine?

I am searching already for some time but there is nowhere any information.

Jianis

[Constabulary]

Similar to the Singer 45K1 but with a longer flat bed (Adler 4 are a ll a bit longer than the 45K), It is using system 328 / 214 needles and the same hook and bobbin as the Singer 45K. The interesting part here is it has a back gear / speed reducer. Not sure if yours is complete seems the hand wheel is missing.

[Jianis]

18 hours ago, Constabulary said:

Similar to the Singer 45K1 but with a longer flat bed (Adler 4 are a ll a bit longer than the 45K), It is using system 328 / 214 needles and the same hook and bobbin as the Singer 45K. The interesting part here is it has a back gear / speed reducer. Not sure if yours is complete seems the hand wheel is missing.

Thank you Constabulary

 
The machine is massive and heavy.

I got it only to use the frame and foot wheel  to set up my 111W Singer, I did not know the size !!

It is equipped with a huge clutch motor. I did not expect it to work but it does it only needs some work on the thread tension spring and the bobbin case. It has a max stitch of 11 mm.

Jianis

[DonInReno]

That is really cool!

[shoepatcher]

the 4 class is the precursor to the 104.  great machines.  I would not part it out.  get it set up and running.

glenn

[Jianis]

10 hours ago, shoepatcher said:

the 4 class is the precursor to the 104.  great machines.  I would not part it out.  get it set up and running.

glenn

For now and till I get some parts for my Singer 111W.. it will stay as is  and I will work on some minor issues dat need to be solved.

Jianis

[DonInReno]

That’s going to be a lot more valuable than the Singer 111w - I’ve never seen a big gear used as a speed reducer - quite unique.   I guess the exposed gears took off a few finger tips so the idea never gained much popularity.   I bought a few helical gears off eBay for a geared speed reducer thinking they would be much more compact than a belt driven 3:1 reducer, but by the time the gears are fully enclosed to be finger friendly it’s not much different, so that experiment is on hold.  Lol

[Jianis]

9 hours ago, DonInReno said:

That’s going to be a lot more valuable than the Singer 111w - I’ve never seen a big gear used as a speed reducer - quite unique.   I guess the exposed gears took off a few finger tips so the idea never gained much popularity.   I bought a few helical gears off eBay for a geared speed reducer thinking they would be much more compact than a belt driven 3:1 reducer, but by the time the gears are fully enclosed to be finger friendly it’s not much different, so that experiment is on hold.  Lol

It has got only the big gear and a bracket for a shaft (?? ).
Now that you mentioned it I might be able to find some parts in the future. At the moment I cannot do anything as I am away for a few months so I only can do some research for finding parts.

Helical gears is a good idea if you have the means to make the needed setup.

In the mea time I will be *torturing* the forum with questions about a totally worn out Singer 29 D 60  that I just pulled out of the cellar of my summer address ( 35+ years ontheven waiting list ).
Do you have any  photos or relative information on the back gear that was used by the Adler.

Thank you!
Jianis

 

 

[DonInReno]

On 6/13/2023 at 6:47 PM, Jianis said:

Do you have any  photos or relative information on the back gear that was used by the Adler.

I do not have any information - I’ve never seen one until yours.

It shouldn’t be too hard to find a gear to match, although sewing machines are famous for oddball gears and screw threads to prevent others from making spare parts so it might not be an exact fit.

There are three things you’ll use to identify the gear - the number of teeth, the relative size (diametrical pitch or dp), and the angle formed where the teeth meet (pressure angle or pa).

Spur gears in the US that were used on older machines are normally a 14.5 degree pressure angle, vs 20 degree pressure angle used on new machines.   I have no idea what type of gears were common when and where your machine was made.

The number of teeth can vary since all gears of the same dp and pressure angle mesh with each other, but most reducers are 3:1 and then there’s the reduction between the reducer and handwheel pulley, which can be up to 6:1.   All combined the reduction is something between 10:1 and 18:1.   If your main gear has about 50 teeth you’ll want a small gear and it probably won’t give enough reduction on its own and you’ll have to have a large pulley driving the small gear and small pulley on the motor.

For size (dp) it’s not going to be easy to determine other than comparing it to gears of a known size.

In the photo these are both dp of 8 and number of teeth are 20, but the one with squarish teeth is 14.5 pa and the other is 20 pa.  They somewhat mesh, but if used together it would be a very loud setup.  Just a wild guess, but it seems your gear is somewhat close to dp 8, but probably the larger dp 6 or even a dp 5.

The catch is, there is no requirement for them to follow these common gears and it might be a weird pa and nonstandard tooth shape.

This catalog somewhat describes the differences and commonly available inch (not metric) size gears from Boston Gear.

[DonInReno]

For some reason the catalog image doesn’t show up, but that is a clickable link to the catalog nonetheless.

[Jianis]

2 hours ago, DonInReno said:

I do not have any information - I’ve never seen one until yours.

It shouldn’t be too hard to find a gear to match, although sewing machines are famous for oddball gears and screw threads to prevent others from making spare parts so it might not be an exact fit.

There are three things you’ll use to identify the gear - the number of teeth, the relative size (diametrical pitch or dp), and the angle formed where the teeth meet (pressure angle or pa).

Spur gears in the US that were used on older machines are normally a 14.5 degree pressure angle, vs 20 degree pressure angle used on new machines.   I have no idea what type of gears were common when and where your machine was made.

The number of teeth can vary since all gears of the same dp and pressure angle mesh with each other, but most reducers are 3:1 and then there’s the reduction between the reducer and handwheel pulley, which can be up to 6:1.   All combined the reduction is something between 10:1 and 18:1.   If your main gear has about 50 teeth you’ll want a small gear and it probably won’t give enough reduction on its own and you’ll have to have a large pulley driving the small gear and small pulley on the motor.

For size (dp) it’s not going to be easy to determine other than comparing it to gears of a known size.

In the photo these are both dp of 8 and number of teeth are 20, but the one with squarish teeth is 14.5 pa and the other is 20 pa.  They somewhat mesh, but if used together it would be a very loud setup.  Just a wild guess, but it seems your gear is somewhat close to dp 8, but probably the larger dp 6 or even a dp 5.

The catch is, there is no requirement for them to follow these common gears and it might be a weird pa and nonstandard tooth shape.

This catalog somewhat describes the differences and commonly available inch (not metric) size gears from Boston Gear.

Thank you ! 
Lots o useful information.

thIt is a German machine so it should be metric.

I am a couple of thousand miles away from home so it will be some months before I can work on the machine again!

The gear has some 50 teeth.I can eventually calculate the number of teeth of the smaller gear measuring center to center between the the gear itself and the center of the back-gear bracket.  Then find out the kind of  gear and go further….

Jianis

 

[DonInReno]

Of course you’re right about the metric gears on your machine - it’s such an American thing to think everyone used d.p. on old gears!  Lol

I found this explanation of the similarities and differences between the metric and American designations that was just what I needed to better understand the gear modulus system.

Best of luck on it - that’s quite a nice machine.

https://qtcgears.com/tools/catalogs/PDF_Q420/Tech.pdf

Edited June 18, 2023 by DonInReno

[Jianis]

9 minutes ago, DonInReno said:

Of course you’re right about the metric gears on your machine - it’s such an American thing to think everyone used d.p. on old gears!  Lol

I found this explanation of the similarities and differences between the metric and American designations that was just what I needed to better understand the gear modulus system.

Best of luck on it - that’s quite a nice machine.

https://qtcgears.com/tools/catalogs/PDF_Q420/Tech.pdf

Thank you .

A lot of usefull information in one document.

Back in the 70s I had the theory in college and I even got a deviding head and 2 sets of gear cuting discs to experiment on my Myford lathe with milling attachment. At the time I made two gears on coper disks and then I forgot all about it.

Jianis