tracey Report post Posted July 8, 2023 Hello! I've got serious rivet questions on the brain.... For years I've been using "regular" rivets and the silver colored ones were nickel over brass. No problem there but recently I started using double cap rivets which I've been very happy with because they look nicer and seem stronger (they are nickel plate). The trouble is that instead of staying shiny, they seem to turn foggy (tarnish?). WHY do they do that?! I like the double cap but need the shininess so it matches other hardware. Any input?? Thanks! Tracey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fredk Report post Posted July 8, 2023 Many questions; are they nickel on steel? are they tarnishing before use or after use? what way are they stored unused or when used? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Handstitched Report post Posted July 9, 2023 If they are stored or if the item you made is stored in a damp or moist location, that could cause them to tarnish . Case in point: I made a about a dozen studded and riveted wrist bands for one client, NP, , all nice and shiny, ready to sell . I had them in a plastic bag, just sitting on the floor in my Mothers sewing room. I went to pick them up the next day.....and AAGGHH!!! The whole lot tarnished over night the cold air in Mums sewing room must have been just damp enough. HS Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tsunkasapa Report post Posted July 9, 2023 Nickel should not tarnish. It can get a bit of patina, but not tarnish. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Handstitched Report post Posted July 9, 2023 Whatever it was, the shine was gone. Took me a good hour or more clean them up to sell. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tracey Report post Posted July 9, 2023 12 hours ago, Handstitched said: If they are stored or if the item you made is stored in a damp or moist location, that could cause them to tarnish . Case in point: I made a about a dozen studded and riveted wrist bands for one client, NP, , all nice and shiny, ready to sell . I had them in a plastic bag, just sitting on the floor in my Mothers sewing room. I went to pick them up the next day.....and AAGGHH!!! The whole lot tarnished over night the cold air in Mums sewing room must have been just damp enough. HS Ugh!!!! ☹️ !!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tracey Report post Posted July 9, 2023 9 hours ago, tsunkasapa said: Nickel should not tarnish. It can get a bit of patina, but not tarnish. 9 hours ago, tsunkasapa said: Nickel should not tarnish. It can get a bit of patina, but not tarnish. I'm wondering why the "nickel over brass" didnt tarnish but the "nickel plate" did. Hmmm... Also wondering if the double cap are indeed stronger... Btw, thanks for answering- 16 hours ago, fredk said: Many questions; are they nickel on steel? are they tarnishing before use or after use? what way are they stored unused or when used? 7 hours ago, Handstitched said: Whatever it was, the shine was gone. Took me a good hour or more clean them up to sell. ☹️‼️ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tracey Report post Posted July 9, 2023 17 hours ago, fredk said: Many questions; are they nickel on steel? are they tarnishing before use or after use? what way are they stored unused or when used? Not sure why my reply isnt showing here (sorry, new here...learning my way with the site) They are only described as "nickel plate" so Im not sure if steel is the base. There was no storage time. Just made items (like collars and bags with riveted straps, etc), and items were in full use. It was roughly 1-2 weeks that I saw the customers with items again (and saw the tarnished rivets!)... Are double cap rivets stronger? Thanks for ur input! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fredk Report post Posted July 9, 2023 2 hours ago, tracey said: They are only described as "nickel plate" so Im not sure if steel is the base. There was no storage time. Just made items (like collars and bags with riveted straps, etc), and items were in full use. It was roughly 1-2 weeks that I saw the customers with items again (and saw the tarnished rivets!)... Simple check; take a magnet to them. I have never had nickle plate on brass tarnish but I've had nickle plate on steel showing corrosion, the corrosion of the steel coming through. I only use plated brass or unplated brass now 2 hours ago, tracey said: Are double cap rivets stronger? I think they may very slightly stronger. The head over the base keeps that base from pulling through too easily, or easier than without the head cover. But the double header is far nicer in appearance and useful. I only use double headers now, just very occasionally single headers in a very small size Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tracey Report post Posted July 9, 2023 2 hours ago, fredk said: Simple check; take a magnet to them. I have never had nickle plate on brass tarnish but I've had nickle plate on steel showing corrosion, the corrosion of the steel coming through. I only use plated brass or unplated brass now I think they may very slightly stronger. The head over the base keeps that base from pulling through too easily, or easier than without the head cover. But the double header is far nicer in appearance and useful. I only use double headers now, just very occasionally single headers in a very small size Sure enough, steel! Thanks for the magnet suggestion. I guess I have my answer: go with nickel on brass (or solid brass) only now...(NOT with steel as the base). Now I have to find the double caps in nickel-brass... I appreciate your help! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fredk Report post Posted July 9, 2023 21 minutes ago, tracey said: . . . Now I have to find the double caps in nickel-brass... example https://www.tandyleather.world/products/solid-brass-double-cap-rivets-100-pack?variant=32642873000071 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tracey Report post Posted July 10, 2023 On 7/9/2023 at 4:48 PM, fredk said: example https://www.tandyleather.world/products/solid-brass-double-cap-rivets-100-pack?variant=32642873000071 THANK YOU! Thanks thanks thanks... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frodo Report post Posted July 12, 2023 With out getting political where as I would be talking bad about another countries ethics as to quality watch out where the product originated from. Their is reason you can go on Ala baba and buy a zillion rivets for $100 crap material and slave labor equals a high cash return to the owner of the company Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Doc Reaper Report post Posted July 12, 2023 I see quick rivets as something to look at, aesthetics, if you would. They have the strength of a hollow tube made of tin, because that’s what they are! There is zero holding strength in a quick rivet. Back in the 70s the rivets were made much better than the junk you find today. The discoloration you are seeing is because of all the materials involved. Nickel is cheap and tin is even cheaper! Also the tannins in the leather are partially at fault. Brass is a good solid holder but steel rocks. If copper was lame it wouldn’t be for rivets. TIN SHOULD NOT BE USED AS A RIVET. I’d use a screw post before a tin rivet Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frodo Report post Posted July 13, 2023 On 7/12/2023 at 3:48 PM, Doc Reaper said: I see quick rivets as something to look at, aesthetics, if you would. They have the strength of a hollow tube made of tin, because that’s what they are! There is zero holding strength in a quick rivet. Back in the 70s the rivets were made much better than the junk you find today. The discoloration you are seeing is because of all the materials involved. Nickel is cheap and tin is even cheaper! Also the tannins in the leather are partially at fault. Brass is a good solid holder but steel rocks. If copper was lame it wouldn’t be for rivets. TIN SHOULD NOT BE USED AS A RIVET. I’d use a screw post before a tin rivet 22 lr makes for good rivets just be careful how you set them Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fredk Report post Posted July 15, 2023 On 7/9/2023 at 9:26 PM, tracey said: Sure enough, steel! Thanks for the magnet suggestion. On 7/9/2023 at 7:03 PM, fredk said: .. . I only use double headers now, just very occasionally single headers in a very small size The other evening I once again came across a major down-side of using brass-only rivets I spilt a box of of over 100 small, 6mm head size, rivets across the floor. Of course I couldn't use a magnet to collect them up - down on my knees picking them up by ones & twos, looking in nooks & crannies for hiding heads or tails! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
